I agree with this, and it generally makes sense.
I still wonder if there's a way to extend equality and reign in *unjust and harmful* privileges so that the only people hurt by the change are the people who've been cheating the system and harming others intentionally.
Not necessarily? Because not just people who *intentionally* cheat the system are benefiting from the unfair privileges. There are a lot of nominally "good" people who just can't see the effects of privilege in their lives, because a lot of privilege boils down to things you don't have to think about that others do.
Let a wealthy black man and a poor white man each drive a car and wait for Officer Doughnut to answer your question. Or ask a wealthy black guy what happens when his gated community has a new security guard. Or when the wealthy black mans wife is shopping in that fancy boutique.
Even when poor white men are new in the club of deplorables, it's still a pretty colored place.
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· 6 years ago
For the record, poor whites are nothing new in the club/basket/handbag of deplorables. There's a great book called "White Trash" that outlines how poor men, women, and children have been outcast, mocked, and treated like animals (women were imported as breeders, like cattle) for 400 years.
Your metaphor about a black and white man being treated differently by a police officer is apt, but throw a shirtless Billy Bob in the mix, with a thick drawl, a case of Bud in the back seat of an old Chevy, and a shotgun riding shotgun.
How do we extend privilege to Billy Bob without taking it from the other white and black drivers?
Where does privilege come from?
Do we have to take it from someone to extend it to another, or can we create it?
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· 6 years ago
@chakun I believe that we all have varying amounts of stackable privileges.
And we may have privileges that we aren't taking advantage of, which might lead a person who *theoretically* shouldn't be starving to wind up there. A black person who takes full advantage of the privileges of Affirmative Action, govt assistance, scholarships, community classes, etc. may end up in a better situation, thanks to his own hard work + his privilege.
Have you had any thoughts or observations that might confirm or deny how I've seen things?
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· 6 years ago
"throw a shirtless Billy Bob in the mix, with a thick drawl, a case of Bud in the back seat of an old Chevy, and a shotgun riding shotgun. " - Throw in a black person with any two out of these attributes. R.I.P. It's bullshit to pretend there's no white people living under precarious conditions, it's just way more delusional though to pretend racism isn't really a thing any more. I would bet most beneficiaries of affirmative action would be better off if there was no need for that.
Then instead of taking that privilege away and trying to meet in the middle why not TRY(key word being try cause its not exactly easy) to instead bring everyone up to that level of privilege?
@halfdeadhammerhead My bad, I thought you were saying that it wasn't privilege anymore because then you wouldn't have anything to complain about. I retract my "stupid" statement.
@silvermyth Nice Incredibles reference.
So....when scholarships and diversity programs explicitly FOR blacks, Hispanics and women are removed so that everyone is eligible equally, they'll feel like they're discriminated against? They're likely to be angry and complain when they have to compete against everyone equally rather than receive preferential treatment as part of "diversity" efforts by colleges, corporations and government?
The scholarships are there because they're not allowed to compete equally. When internalized prejudices are removed, then we can stop trying to compensate for them. Pro tip: you're making it take longer.
Well, I sure as hell don't think women & minorities are going to magically stop being meaningfully disadvantaged any time in the next fifty years, so whether they'll "give up" those scholarships if/when they become unnecessary is a largely immaterial concern for this time period.
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· 6 years ago
There's a great book called "Race", written by Studs Terkel. He interviewed tons of people asking them questions about race and race issues, and he just shares their stories without his commentary. People often disagree, and people often share opinions that you wouldn't expect from them stereotypically.
To some featured in the book, Affirmative Action is unfair because it gives preferential treatment to Blacks. To others it's a bad idea because it gives off the image that Blacks can't succeed without that leg up.
To some it's a great idea because they view systemic racism in our culture as intentionally holding black people back, and to others it's a good idea because inner-city areas are predominantly black and inner-city schools are usually ill-equipped to prepare students for college.
In short, there are plenty of blacks and whites who hate Affirmative Action, and plenty who love it. It's not such a cut and dry issue as people try to make it out to be.
I still wonder if there's a way to extend equality and reign in *unjust and harmful* privileges so that the only people hurt by the change are the people who've been cheating the system and harming others intentionally.
Even when poor white men are new in the club of deplorables, it's still a pretty colored place.
Your metaphor about a black and white man being treated differently by a police officer is apt, but throw a shirtless Billy Bob in the mix, with a thick drawl, a case of Bud in the back seat of an old Chevy, and a shotgun riding shotgun.
How do we extend privilege to Billy Bob without taking it from the other white and black drivers?
Where does privilege come from?
Do we have to take it from someone to extend it to another, or can we create it?
And we may have privileges that we aren't taking advantage of, which might lead a person who *theoretically* shouldn't be starving to wind up there. A black person who takes full advantage of the privileges of Affirmative Action, govt assistance, scholarships, community classes, etc. may end up in a better situation, thanks to his own hard work + his privilege.
Have you had any thoughts or observations that might confirm or deny how I've seen things?
@silvermyth Nice Incredibles reference.
To some featured in the book, Affirmative Action is unfair because it gives preferential treatment to Blacks. To others it's a bad idea because it gives off the image that Blacks can't succeed without that leg up.
To some it's a great idea because they view systemic racism in our culture as intentionally holding black people back, and to others it's a good idea because inner-city areas are predominantly black and inner-city schools are usually ill-equipped to prepare students for college.
In short, there are plenty of blacks and whites who hate Affirmative Action, and plenty who love it. It's not such a cut and dry issue as people try to make it out to be.