Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Not just anybody can use that .. it gets taken out of context all the time.
ok, but he isn't quoting the bible here.
is your argument here actually "Anything is possible for God" is not always true? Because he isn't saying "Anything is possible through God". God could, according to the fact that he is creator of humanity, alter this man to be able to bear his partners child. Anything is possible for God. Not to say he will, just that he could.
Also, perhaps more importantly, he is using humor to disarm people whose argument against his marriage is bases in the idea that two men cannot have a child, by suggesting he and his husband do the thing that straight infertile couples do all the time; keep having intercourse and pray for a child.
There’s an old theology question- can god make a rock so heavy not even god can lift it? It’s called the omnipotence paradox. There are many people who believe they have the “right” answer yet the answers are very different. So let’s not focus on what god can or cannot do other than what we know as fact. We know god cannot lie from the Bible- unless that part is a lie. Assuming it is true- we can at least agree that what god has created is good by god. What we could then say is that precedent does exist in nature for reproduction between all types of sexes by different species. There’s no clear line showing it is not possible for god to have two men make a baby, only that god doesn’t seem to want to. Call it Devine perogotive. But there’s no indication homosexuality is bad at all let alone worse than premarital sex or several other common acts forbidden in scripture- and 0 word against it being right for gays to have babies.
Hell if I know man. I just said- the fact something isn’t against the rules doesn’t mean the rules are made to support it. Think of it this way: a video game console can run a game like Mass effect 4. So it has all it needs to theoretically run MS paint. But there is no part of mass effect 4 that allows you to use MS paint in game. The fact that they didn’t include it in the rules of the program doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. In theory if someone had the will, the time, and the know how they could put MS paint inside mass effect 4. In theory a copy of MS paint could accidentally be burned to a mass effect 4 disk. All the pieces are there, they just aren’t where they need to be for it to happen on its own without a huge improbability. Reality as we know it exists in a set of rules in pretty much all theological and scientific theories. Wether these rules are immutable we do know that certain things are possible within those rules, but not practical.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
@mrsuperman8942
Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head. (Leviticus 20:9)
Hope you were never a teen.
If you’re going to quote scripture though this needs addressed. Firstly we need to be clear. Save for sins of ignorance, god doesn’t rank sin. Commandments aren’t in order of severity. Liars, the covetous, thieves, astrologers, those dressing provocatively, couples that have intercourse too close to periods... it’s a long list and in God’s eyes all who don’t repent for them are equally sinners. Secondly, for Christians some degree of the Old Testament is obsolete by Jesus’s word. The NT shows continuity in places but not others. Jesus tells us to love each other but never says squat about not being gay. Lastly- even if we were to take this literally and as truth, if you don’t perform sacrifices, wear mixed fabrics, etc. you are just as much a sinner. As for punishment, man makes laws on punishment on earth. Other wise adulterers could be stoned to death and women couldn’t speak in church. Read the whole books, not just the parts that you like and you may learn something
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
sexual sins are worse as they occur inside the body and God has never changed his mind as that would contradict the fact that he never lies and therefore the whole idea of Christianity falls apart in an instant.
For I, the LORD, do not change Malachi 3:6a
also on your last point, Jesus died on the cross so we didn't have to do those.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Matthew 27:51
the veil separated God form anyone who wasn't a priest. the tearing symbolizes that now God is accessible to all men, women, priests, and non-priests. and the only thing keeping adulters from getting stoned is man and God isn't stopping them.
Ok so just a couple historical comments on all this.
A great deal of the laws recorded in the old testament was for the Israelites in a rough time in human history, not only for their protection from neighboring enemies but also from immoral practices within their own community. (Note, they screwed up a lot and didn't always follow through with the laws, but that's a side note).
The laws established by God wasn't necessarily to try to make the people better and more like Him, because that's impossible for them to do. Instead they were designed to point towards no matter how hard they/we try, we are a sinful race and screw up all the time. They would sacrifice lambs, oxen, doves, etc. as a blood offering for the wickedness of what they've done.
Then comes Jesus. He is the lamb, the blood offering to cover the sins of mankind from beginning to end. There isn't a "lapse" in the laws, the laws changed (where they made sense to, example eating pigs vs. Murdering a pregnant woman).
God doesn’t have to lie to change the rules. They’ve changed through history as suited the time as @megara points out and yourself point out with the tearing of the veil. Why was their a veil to start then if god didn’t want one, and wasn’t planning to tear it down? Do you know God’s plan better than god? you say sexual immorality is worse than all other kinds and yet that’s one scripture you don’t quote. On who’s authority have you made that decision for god? Lastly- the Bible does mention many places the fault of sexual perversions. It seldom clarified these unambiguously but it does say they are sins. Perversions like provocative dressing- do you dress as a modest 1st century Hebrew would approve of? The word “sodomyl is contentious in translation but even if it’s interpreted as anal- that’s not gay anal, it’s all anal. It’s carnal acts of penetration that can’t lead to procreation. Anal and BJ’s by your definition are amongst the worst sins then- and let he who is without sin....
i did quote the verse where it talks about sexual sin. 1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
also, NO I DON'T know Gods plan better than he does but I do know what the bible says and that it wouldn't matter what it says if God changed his plans. and as a God who states he never lies, so it goes without saying that Malachi 3: 6, where he says to the descendants of Jacob that he never changes, is true. But if he did change that would be a lie and a sin (which God said that he is without sin) and therefore we wouldn't have a perfect God, just a book and some faith.
@scatmandingo- I find religious folk to often be quite rational. It’s the zealots and fanatics who use religion and bend it to suit their beliefs and ways that give em all a bad name. But you’re right. This doesn’t seem like a fruitful discussion. I think I might press on for fun though. I can say that openly because it’s obvious someone here isn’t reading what I say before they post a reply so I doubt I have to worry about my fun being ruined.
after reading your comment again I noticed that you said "let he who is without sin..." and the correct response would be "cast the first stone" but I'm still a minor and have never had those thoughts. also, I'm not a fanatic or a zealot I'm just some kid who watched Kent Hovind his whole life and read the bible for what it says.
@mrsuperman8942- Appologies. I didn’t realize you were a child. I think it’s great you have faith and believe in something bigger and nobler than human existence. Just know that in life you will encounter many different folks who don’t feel as you do. Try to keep an open mind and remember the Bible is a guide- a tool to try and show you a moral life. It’s big lessons are do as little harm to the world, yourself, and others as possible, love every human as if they were family, forgive, and don’t get too caught up in this world because it’s just a pit stop to paradise. If people are doing right they’ll go to heaven and if not- well; its Gods perogotive to decide. That’s key. We don’t have to judge people’s choices if they don’t stop us from living our own lives our way. Sorry again I was hard on you and bless.
Religious faith, as I mentioned, cannot be rational. “God is standing in front of me and shakes my hand so I believe he exists” is rational. “There is no proof of God and a wealth of circumstantial evidence that he does not exist but I believe anyway” is irrational and the definition of faith.
I will assume you do not mean mathematically irrational and proceed based in English language. Is faith unreasonable? No. There is reason there, it may not stand certain people’s proofs, but few things stand all possible scrutiny. Is it illogical? No. There are logical arguments for faith in many things. One may fault the logic, but faulty logic is not the same as no logic. Groundless? No. There are historical documents as well as observable attributable phenomenon to base Grounds on. They may be weak ground but that’s still ground. Foolish? Perhaps. It depends on what we put faith in and how we manifest that faith. ....
To say faith is irrational is to deny the scientific evidence that faith can both cause chemical changes in the human body as well as mind. It denies the positive and negative impact faith has on society. What I mean to say is that faith can and often is used as a tool by both those possessing faith, and those seeking to control others. This is logical and fits what we know of human behavior. In the sense of absolutes humans by nature are illogical. An illogical construct logically may not respond as well to logic as illogic which suits an illogical construct. It is illogical to use a tool that isn’t suited for a job.
Again I didn’t say unreasonable, illogical, or deny the influence of faith on individuals or society.
The point I was originally making was that faith is irrational in the vein of being emotional.
I certainly wasn’t implying you were saying anything other than that. I merely listed the tenants of rationality. The short version being that nothing about faith is inherently irrational. Emotions can cause us to be irrational, similarly faith and can be made irrational too. On its own it is not and does not make a person irrational. Believing fairy tales because you were told, or they’re in an old book is irrational. The key lies in critical thinking. If we can understand our thoughts and put logic to them, if we can reconcile them with reality- there is room for rationality. Those beliefs which hold consistent and can coexist with the best information we have available are not irrational. Science itself is based on the concept that in absence of proof there must be an answer- so far not a single answer we have found precludes or casts doubt that many events depicted in faith are not possible, or that an extra dimensional entity would be incapable of such things.
Rationalization and being rational are different things.
I don’t like climbing ladders. I never have, it makes me uncomfortable. Yes, I know there is all sorts of data saying that ladders are generally safe but I still can’t climb one.
This is a phobia, granted, but is also an example of irrational thinking. I could take this and do exactly what you believe is possible with faith. I can give you an argument based on “logic” that says that ladders are evil and my gutters should stay dirty, blah blah.
Doesn’t make my take on climbing ladders anything other than irrational.
You illustrate my point. It is rational to be concerned with the risks to your safety a ladder poses. It is not rational to simply fear ladders and call it a day. The understanding of why you fear them is the corner stone of rationality.
Fear itself is illogical. However an aversion to ladders is a perfectly rational thing. They are a major cause of accidents and deaths. It’s statistically ill advised to use a ladder unnecessarily. The why is key. If we understand the fear, what underpins it, we can overcome it more or less. I was afraid of climbing these 30+ft ladders we used to use at a job of mine. But I knew I had to. I followed all the precautions to ensure optimal safety, and was still scared. Eventually through repeated doing and not dying I was seldom scared and when so, less so. I knew there was still more risk than on the ground and did my best to manage that prudently. From there- I had to have faith in the fact that I had done all I could to mitigate risk and the data was on my side that accidents were not statistically significant in my use case, and if they occurred My active and passive safety measures would see me through. Since we don’t know everything all living requires some degree of faith.
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Not just anybody can use that .. it gets taken out of context all the time.
is your argument here actually "Anything is possible for God" is not always true? Because he isn't saying "Anything is possible through God". God could, according to the fact that he is creator of humanity, alter this man to be able to bear his partners child. Anything is possible for God. Not to say he will, just that he could.
Also, perhaps more importantly, he is using humor to disarm people whose argument against his marriage is bases in the idea that two men cannot have a child, by suggesting he and his husband do the thing that straight infertile couples do all the time; keep having intercourse and pray for a child.
Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head. (Leviticus 20:9)
Hope you were never a teen.
sexual sins are worse as they occur inside the body and God has never changed his mind as that would contradict the fact that he never lies and therefore the whole idea of Christianity falls apart in an instant.
For I, the LORD, do not change Malachi 3:6a
also on your last point, Jesus died on the cross so we didn't have to do those.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Matthew 27:51
the veil separated God form anyone who wasn't a priest. the tearing symbolizes that now God is accessible to all men, women, priests, and non-priests. and the only thing keeping adulters from getting stoned is man and God isn't stopping them.
A great deal of the laws recorded in the old testament was for the Israelites in a rough time in human history, not only for their protection from neighboring enemies but also from immoral practices within their own community. (Note, they screwed up a lot and didn't always follow through with the laws, but that's a side note).
The laws established by God wasn't necessarily to try to make the people better and more like Him, because that's impossible for them to do. Instead they were designed to point towards no matter how hard they/we try, we are a sinful race and screw up all the time. They would sacrifice lambs, oxen, doves, etc. as a blood offering for the wickedness of what they've done.
Then comes Jesus. He is the lamb, the blood offering to cover the sins of mankind from beginning to end. There isn't a "lapse" in the laws, the laws changed (where they made sense to, example eating pigs vs. Murdering a pregnant woman).
For I, the LORD, do not change Malachi 3:6a
also, NO I DON'T know Gods plan better than he does but I do know what the bible says and that it wouldn't matter what it says if God changed his plans. and as a God who states he never lies, so it goes without saying that Malachi 3: 6, where he says to the descendants of Jacob that he never changes, is true. But if he did change that would be a lie and a sin (which God said that he is without sin) and therefore we wouldn't have a perfect God, just a book and some faith.
The point I was originally making was that faith is irrational in the vein of being emotional.
I don’t like climbing ladders. I never have, it makes me uncomfortable. Yes, I know there is all sorts of data saying that ladders are generally safe but I still can’t climb one.
This is a phobia, granted, but is also an example of irrational thinking. I could take this and do exactly what you believe is possible with faith. I can give you an argument based on “logic” that says that ladders are evil and my gutters should stay dirty, blah blah.
Doesn’t make my take on climbing ladders anything other than irrational.
Otherwise no more a chance than a straight couple