This reminds me of that one time when my grandpa was in the hospital for a heart attack, and the Jehovas witnesses came to my grandmother's house and started telling her and my mom that it was because he was a bad person... Needless to say, my mom kicked them out of the house and told them to never come into her house again.
If you define cure by "something that may or may not work without any predictable outcome", then sure. I've also found a cure for cavities, eye decay and general aging, it's eating pizza all day. Well it hasn't worked for me obviously because I wasn't giving my pizza enough attention, but it's gonna work for someone, eventually.
(Please note that I respect Christian beliefs, BUT do not support anyone trying to say praying is better than medicine because that is dangerous. Religion can and does help with psychological problems such as depression, loneliness etc, but the numbers are not in religion's favor for any physical disease. And I could not agree with but understand that God would ultimately be behind a curefor cancer in a Christian point of view, but as the death rate shows we don't have that cure yet.)
There are things people forget about abrahamic religion. They pretty much all hold that humanity was expelled from paradise. So:
1. The real world sucks and bad things WILL happen as long as you are alive. Prayer is irrelevant to this because until you die, you’re kicked out of paradise.
2. God helps those who help themselves. It’s not actually said in any of the major holy books, but they all have some version of the concept that laziness and lack of action is not the path intended to the devout.
3. All things are through God. The doctor or fire fighter or stranger and the medicine the water, whatever were all tools working through gods plan.
4. The plan. There’s a plan in abrahamic faiths. Prophecies. No one except God knows them and no one can question them because mortals can’t understand. “Why do bad things happen if... blah blah.” Doesn’t matter. The point of those books boils down to “live your life and try to live it well.”
@guest_ Let's not forget about the complete lack of evidence for the abrahamic religions and all the evidence against them along with all the reasons why even if said gods did exists why they would be immoral monsters that should never be worshipped. The point of those books is to do whatever god says or be tortured. Also, just because there is a plan doesn't matter. 9/11 was part of a plan too.
Does anything matter? It’s kinda subjective. There’s no more proof for most any religion, abrahamic or other, than exists against it. In context to religion the idea of “immortal monsters” and “9/11 was a plan too” is addressed by the idea that a corporeal being can’t underatand the perspective of an omnipotent being. The argument over religion is circular. There will never be enough proof for anyone who refuses to believe and there will never be enough counter proof for someone who refuses not to believe. I’m not here to discuss wether deities exist- merely that many people (as you illustrate) use just as many and largely the same logical fallacies to determine gods do not exist as people use to justify that they do. One I didn’t name above is “5: god(s) exist as genies. The mark of a self centered world view- this one holds that because god(s) refuse to manifest in a way to satisfy the observer, or because god(s) don’t make our lives perfect- it is proof they don’t exist or are evil.
"There’s no more proof for most any religion, abrahamic or other, than exists against it." Is the best thing I've ever heard. It's literally something I expect to hear in a "Top 10 Worst Religious Arguments". A few simple things that disprove the Christianity... The heliocentric model, the completely wrong order of life's development on Earth, the age of the earth being off by a factor of 750000, that the moon is a source of light, that humans are different than animals, that stone age humans don't live past 50 much less 900, that rainbows are caused by magic, the fact that magic doesn't exist as shown by the Large Hadron Collider, the complete lack of existence of giants, the proof in the geologic collumn that shows no evidence of a global flood, the impossibility of a global flood, and the to me... THAT THE EARTH ISN'T FLAT. The Bible makes plenty of claims and most of them are wrong. You only have to prove one claim wrong to show it's not the word of a god.
I'm not saying the person who posted it is a liar, but I know a few people that actually do good things in god's name. Like they are literally healthy and dont do bad stuff because God says so. Which is good but j wish they weren't so strict about it.
Sooo..... wouldn’t... wouldn’t the published research of Jesus Christ be.... the New Testament? I’m not saying either persons is right, I’m just saying that like- 2 seconds of thought would show that isn’t quite as clever a comeback as one would initially think...
Yea, but a research paper requires passing peer review. It failed to the extreme due to self contradictory information, impossibilities, lack of evidence, violations of human rights, known forgeries, and also the fact that the books were written anonymously by many, many different people with a clear agenda.
I mean i think whenever someone dies it is there time and they for the most part accomplished there purpose. So i mean if it aint your time you aint gonna die cause god still needs you but i mean im religious so thats just how i see it.
That sounds about right. Who knows if that was their purpose? And too an immortal- 5 minutes or 50 years is still an infant regardless. A child dead in child birth knew no joy, and no pain in life. As trashman says- the only one who would know what if any purpose such event served was an omnipotent being. Even if we knew, without an infinity of knowlege and perspective how would you comprehend it? @sir_spoderman, half the time you ant even understand what I’m saying and I’m just another human- how would you or I hope to understand the thoughts and deeds of something like a god?
"Your honor, I killed and raped dozens of innocent children, but it was just part of my plan!"
"Oh well, then you're free to go. Having a plan automatically excuses you from violating human rights."
Your argument about understanding god is so laughable. If God is so mysterious, then why do people even claim to understand him? What makes this one so different than all the other thousands of gods? Nothing.
well i mean i would say the aztec gods were a bit different with sacrafices and stuff then the current christian god. I mean call it pitiful but we dont understand gods plan fam and that doesnt give you an excuse to do bad things either man god still has his ten commandments and you are even supposed to follow the laws of the land which dont cover that but im saying god knows everyone's plans while no one really knows there plans but we also got he light of christ which allows us from birth to tell whats good and whats bad fam you got free agency aint a cop out like you think fam. Also if you think all gods are the same you aint doing research
Human Sacrifice:
Numbers 31:25-40
Judges 11:29-40
2 Samuel 21:1, 8-14
"Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee" 1 Kings 13:1-2
God does mention not sacrificing your children to other gods. He wants the sacrifice for himself. Also, wasn't the death of Jesus, a human sacrifice, supposed to be the most important aspect in Christianity?
Animal Sacrifice:
Genesis 4:2-4
Genesis 8:20-21
Genesis 15:9-17
Exodus 20:24
"And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh." Deuteronomy 12:27
Ok so a big difference was the aztecs practiced human sacrifice in their current religions and its not like christian murdered jesus it was jesus got killed by people who hated Christians i mean if you wanna say god let him die so that he could pay for our sins sure it was a sacrafice but like letting someone be killed and then randomly finding people and putting them on an alter where they ripped out the hearts of their enemies and cut their heads off was a bit of a stretch no? Also out of curiosity are you really arguing that all gods are the same cause just saying i find a big difference between every god. For example in greek mythology you just die and go to hell we dont do that fam like we got heaven and shiz if you good they aint got nothing. Also norse we dont believe you have to do amazing achievements in battle to get to heaven its more of if you dont sin or at least repent for your sins. Now i read the scripture idk why you gave me animal sacrifices i dont really care bout
that im interested in the first ones though. The numbers one was because you know the wicked people of sin attacked and so the Israelite rose up destroyed them and god wanted a portion of them killed. the 2nd one was actually the guy who wanted god to help him rise up and defeat his enemies made a rash promise with god and despite his understanding of the rashness now decided to keep his word and had to kill his only daughter. The last one a guy killed some people and then when the main guy showed up he was like i hate my life for the actions ive done please kill me and he did. All these seem vastly different then when people go into a village kill all the main warriors kidnap the rest take them to a temple against their will and gruesomely sacrifice them on a rock and then repeat. You bring up 3 examples in the scriptures but we dont actually practice that like at all and we havent really been known for doing it a ton in the past as well.
@sir_spiderman- your argument is guilty of the same crime as many who abuse religion. You are assuming a litteral translation of events, as well as assuming that something that applied once in one scenario, would apply the same in any scenario. You mention a court room in your example above, yet law does the same thing. It’s ok for one person to kill someone in one scenario- a soldier, a police officer, a cilvillian, but not another, and very specific details can be very important in making that call legally. You are also proving my point with your examples. You don’t understand how to reconcile the perceived good against the perceived bad when discussing this. So it’s not so laughable to think an omnipotent deity would be hard to understand because here you are desperately failing to understand even the possible idea.
(Please note that I respect Christian beliefs, BUT do not support anyone trying to say praying is better than medicine because that is dangerous. Religion can and does help with psychological problems such as depression, loneliness etc, but the numbers are not in religion's favor for any physical disease. And I could not agree with but understand that God would ultimately be behind a curefor cancer in a Christian point of view, but as the death rate shows we don't have that cure yet.)
1. The real world sucks and bad things WILL happen as long as you are alive. Prayer is irrelevant to this because until you die, you’re kicked out of paradise.
2. God helps those who help themselves. It’s not actually said in any of the major holy books, but they all have some version of the concept that laziness and lack of action is not the path intended to the devout.
3. All things are through God. The doctor or fire fighter or stranger and the medicine the water, whatever were all tools working through gods plan.
4. The plan. There’s a plan in abrahamic faiths. Prophecies. No one except God knows them and no one can question them because mortals can’t understand. “Why do bad things happen if... blah blah.” Doesn’t matter. The point of those books boils down to “live your life and try to live it well.”
"Oh well, then you're free to go. Having a plan automatically excuses you from violating human rights."
Your argument about understanding god is so laughable. If God is so mysterious, then why do people even claim to understand him? What makes this one so different than all the other thousands of gods? Nothing.
Numbers 31:25-40
Judges 11:29-40
2 Samuel 21:1, 8-14
"Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee" 1 Kings 13:1-2
God does mention not sacrificing your children to other gods. He wants the sacrifice for himself. Also, wasn't the death of Jesus, a human sacrifice, supposed to be the most important aspect in Christianity?
Animal Sacrifice:
Genesis 4:2-4
Genesis 8:20-21
Genesis 15:9-17
Exodus 20:24
"And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh." Deuteronomy 12:27