And its worse when you have to struggle with things that have absolutely NO relevance to your career choice, but if you perform badly in them, you'll screw up your future.
Math and science require actual knowledge while art and music just require creativity and timing. I know a lot of people on both sides of the fence and I disagree with this post while heartedly.
You can make careers out of art and music. "Art" isnt just simply putting paint on a canvas. You could be an illustrator for books, or a graphic designer(your's truly) theres a lot of careers where art classes are way more relevant than taking chemistry or calculus(not saying math or science isn't important, but when is a graphic artist going to need to find the derivative of of a function in their area of work?)
I'm a lover of science and I play ukulele and guitar. The two subjects are markedly different. All I'm saying is you can't be a "talented scientist" or a "well versed mathematician" just like you can't say "I forgot the equitation to play the harp." I just think this post was not thought all the way through.
People always use the excuse: "When am I ever going to you A or B in the real world."
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What if I told you, almost no one does. I'm an engineer and no I dont sit here and solve formulas all day. I dont use more than basic arithmetic most days.
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The point is, these classes we take outside of our comfort zone help us to learn how to -learn-. It teaches you how to go about solving problems when at first you have no idea to its solution. And problem solving is a skill everyone needs, no matter their career choice.
Maths and sciences are subjects where, while they'll always be there in your life- the extremity of which they are taught is far greater than how much they'll actually come into play- but they are important I'll admit.
BUT, I did not agree with the idea that “music and art is just creativity and good timing.” it's far from it. You need knowledge- the knowledge to read music at first glance, basically another language that some people can't comprehend at all. You need skills- either born with it or developing them over time, it takes a long time to perfect your talent in arts and music- there's a reason some people come out with a portrait and others come out with a stick man. My brother could Thrash me in a maths exam- but I could leave him in the dust in an art exam. don't try to diminish people's talents as 'creativity and good timing', because for some of us- it's what we love and all we have.
Idk where you live, but in my country we have mandatory art and music classes in primary school and then you have to choose art or music on high school.... And with the new school plan starting this year, we'll have mandatory art, music and theatre in high school.
"Mandatory". They can't really make it mandatory, because no matter what, if you're studying science (im studying computer science), it wouldn't make sense to not give someone a degree because he fucked up at theatre. Basically, someone who doesn't care will be able to not give a fuck about it because art class will have such a shitty coefficient it will be irrelevant, or because the requirements to pass it will be neglectable (I have mandatory sport, if I so much as show up and pretend to try I get a passing grade).
We live in a society where science has more value than art, so its normal to push kids to try harder in science, but noone is preventing you from following art if YOU REALLY WANT IT. We're just preventing kids (who don't know better) to screw up their lives just because it's funnier to doodle things than studying maths (not critisizing people who really invest themselves in art, but most kids wouldn't do more than doodle).
I'm talking about high school, so no science degrees involved, and it is a subject like any other, if you fail it you have to sit for it on summer school and if you fail it and one other subject in summer school you repeat the year, it doesn't matter if the subjects are art and theatre or science and histpry, they weight the same
As someone with a degree in Music I can tell you that anyone who thinks that art or music is less complicated or doesn't require as much knowledge or skill, doesn't have the first clue what they're talking about. The biggest problem is that most of the population has no idea what it takes or involves to produce art or music. They just think "Well I know good music when I hear it." or "This piece of art is great and someone else agrees with me so I must know what I'm talking about." Hate to break it to folks but just because you like what you hear or see doesn't mean you have the first clue what it takes to achieve the same result. There's a reason few pieces, relatively speaking, last centuries as being proclaimed masterful works of art or music. That same reason is why Joe Schmoe on the street isn't a mathematician or a scientist discovering new things. It takes hard work, perseverance, dedication, and skill to achieve good results let alone great ones.
Oh god, don't get me started on everything that's wrong with educational system. In general, things are the way they are because it's much simpler to grade a math exam than it is to decide which student drew the best painting and how much should their effort be takien into consideration if they really really such at drawing but have worked their ass off nonetheless.
That's because art and music are subjective... you can't really grade something that's subjective. I could love your art/music, yet teacher B thinks it's junk.
If you creat a grading system you can, in theory, objectively grade anything. It's just harder to do and nobody wants to work harder if they can have it easier. That was kind of my point.
I REALLY wish someone would offer up a legitimate suggestion verse just complaining about the current grading scale/education. I'm not trying to defend either side. But come on, if no one can offer a valid solution, it's just complaining for complainings sake.
it's not my job to find a solution. there's tons of people emplyoed and payed to come up with a solution. i went through the system, i got fucked in every single way by it and if that doesn't give me the fucking right to complain about it so somebody responsible might hear it and do something about it, i don't really know what should i do. get a career in schooling system to solve this problem single-handedly because i have nothing better to do with my time?
During the week I come home from high school, practice for 4 hours, eat dinner, do homework, and go to bed. And almost every weekend I have rehearsals and competitions. That's not much of a social life(im not complaining, just making a point).
@lecomte, I know precisely where you're coming from and I'm underlining your point. If people work hard for anything, ANYTHING, they're bound to have slightly shitty social life. Sure, there's artists who spend their days hitting blunts and eating crayons but there's also people at medschool who turn up drunk at labs and fail 3 years in a row. Party freaks with blooming social life are everywhere. They're just not doing anything productive and you can't judge others who study their asses off based on these people.
Most science degrees require at least one arts credit but keep in mind that's a very general term because they could take something like history to fill that space
Ugh story of my life. I suck at math but I can draw a realistic still life portrait with half a crayon. But i will say that it is easier to succeed in those other fields because the world needs scientists and doctors more than it needs cartoonists and sculptors
Arts can provide the world with fantastic pieces of culture and beauty, while sciences lead to incredible breakthroughs and knowledge of what is going on around us. Both of these are essential to a fully functioning society. Very few people are incredible at either expressing themselves creatively or scientifically (even fewer can do both), but what I am trying to say is that whilst a scientific may have relatively little need for arts at all, all professions, including arts and media, require a basic understanding of maths and sciences, such as spreadsheets. The maths and science that people are 'forced' to do is implemented to help them in later life.
Um....no. Even in entire schools devoted to math and science, people training to become chemical engineers are still forced to go to art class. And it's actually part of your grade. Like, if you fail art or music, you won't pass.
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· 9 years ago
But math and science are relevant in real life (whether you notice or not). Like you need to have basic math skills in a lot of jobs, and even if you don't need to know very complicated ideas in science, you still need to know how you body works, or not to mix vinegar and bleach when cleaning because you'll die from chlorine gas. Sure, you don't need to use the Pythagorean theorem or know what the mitochondria is but a basic knowledge of both is required in life.
They can't really make art or music mandatory, because no matter what, if you're studying science (im studying computer science), it wouldn't make sense to not give someone a degree because he fucked up at theatre. Basically, someone who doesn't care will be able to not give a fuck about it because art class will have such a shitty coefficient it will be irrelevant, or because the requirements to pass it will be neglectable (I have mandatory sport, if I so much as show up and pretend to try I get a passing grade).
We live in a society where science has more value than art, so its normal to push kids to try harder in science, but noone is preventing you from following art if YOU REALLY WANT IT. We're just preventing kids (who don't know better) to screw up their lives just because it's funnier to doodle things than studying maths (not critisizing people who really invest themselves in art, but most kids wouldn't do more than doodle).
I struggle with math, and the tests in Science. Otherwise, I'm advance in Science, I'm considered as a common artist, and I play the violin and I'm self teaching my self the piano.
Because a basic grounding in science is far more important than artistic appreciation. Look at the measles outbreaks due to people not getting their kids vaccinated. This wouldn't have happened if these parents were even slightly scientifically literate. And most schools don't require calculus or even trigonometry, just theough algebra which is useful in everyday life. It helps me make financially prudent decisions at the grocery store. It's useful in minor construction projects around my home. These are real life skills.
I'm not going to say that the arts aren't difficult, I started painting models a few years ago and it's taken a lot of practice to get to what I would consider an average level of skill. There is a lot of technique and talent involved. But these skills aren't as necessary to being a functional adult as basic math and science are,
if you're bad at making art, you can still appreciate art done by others. If you're bad at math, you'll suck at doing some everyday tasks. If you're bad at science, you won't recognize certain things that are important to know as a voter and taxpayer. For example, a little chemistry lets you know that sodium and chlorine may be poisonous, but together they make salt...which is edible. Likewise, vaccines may contain chemicals which are harmful in one form (mercury), but are not in the form they are in when in a vaccine. A little bit of math lets you notice that the budget increase from the current administration exceeds 100% of the income of the top 5% of taxpayers. So when thepoliticians say thay'll pay for it with a small tax increase on the top 5%, plan for the middle class to pay...that's where the $$$ thanks to the huge number of taxpayers.
Maths and science should be compulsory. People who say they suck at maths and science just need to pay more attention it's noting more than just retaining information and rules and applying them to other situations. Which is a necessary skill in life. But art and music aren't necessarily going to help everyone. Anyone can appreciate art and music but not everyone can create it. It requires skill and talent. Maths and Science however at high school level when it's compulsory does not require any special skills. It requires you to listen and pay attention.
They make science and maths compulsory because there is a demand for people in those kind of jobs but limited job opportunities in the arts sector. Though I do think there should be a greater focus on culture/languages as they tend to be useful and communication is key to good relationships.
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What if I told you, almost no one does. I'm an engineer and no I dont sit here and solve formulas all day. I dont use more than basic arithmetic most days.
.
The point is, these classes we take outside of our comfort zone help us to learn how to -learn-. It teaches you how to go about solving problems when at first you have no idea to its solution. And problem solving is a skill everyone needs, no matter their career choice.
BUT, I did not agree with the idea that “music and art is just creativity and good timing.” it's far from it. You need knowledge- the knowledge to read music at first glance, basically another language that some people can't comprehend at all. You need skills- either born with it or developing them over time, it takes a long time to perfect your talent in arts and music- there's a reason some people come out with a portrait and others come out with a stick man. My brother could Thrash me in a maths exam- but I could leave him in the dust in an art exam. don't try to diminish people's talents as 'creativity and good timing', because for some of us- it's what we love and all we have.
We live in a society where science has more value than art, so its normal to push kids to try harder in science, but noone is preventing you from following art if YOU REALLY WANT IT. We're just preventing kids (who don't know better) to screw up their lives just because it's funnier to doodle things than studying maths (not critisizing people who really invest themselves in art, but most kids wouldn't do more than doodle).
We live in a society where science has more value than art, so its normal to push kids to try harder in science, but noone is preventing you from following art if YOU REALLY WANT IT. We're just preventing kids (who don't know better) to screw up their lives just because it's funnier to doodle things than studying maths (not critisizing people who really invest themselves in art, but most kids wouldn't do more than doodle).
I'm not going to say that the arts aren't difficult, I started painting models a few years ago and it's taken a lot of practice to get to what I would consider an average level of skill. There is a lot of technique and talent involved. But these skills aren't as necessary to being a functional adult as basic math and science are,