Welcome to the US legal system, where the precedents are made up, and logic doesn't matter.
14
deleted
· 7 years ago
Well, booby-traps are illegal anyway for emergency personnel protection. If your house catches fire while you're not there and a firefighter stumbles into a gun you set to go off if you get robbed, you're in deep shit.
I mean...if it keeps me out of trouble and my loved ones safe, I'd gladly kill. I'd kill with a smile and a laugh, but it does suck that killing is a better option than breaking their elbow with a baseball bat.
I'm training so that I'll be able to kill in defense of myself and others, but it would be nice if people who abhor killing wouldn't be fucked by courts as a consequence.
shit like this is why if somebody ever breaks into your home, it's in your legal best interest to shoot them in the chest while they are standing and facing you, and make sure they're dead before the cops show up
they can't pull bullshit like this if they're dead
cops will tell you stuff like this if you ever ask them about it
What the hell, dudes? Self-defense must be justified and proportionate. Hurting (potentially killing) someone who tried to break into your house while there is nobody inside is NOT proportionate defense. Not at all. If someone tries to physically assault you and you hurt him to repel the attack, it's self-defense, but using potentially deadly force on a burglar that would have had no one to hurt, or even scare, in the process is complete madness.
Guest is speaking sense. At the time of entry there was no threat to human life... Except for the burglar who had his legs shot. He did not use appropriate force. If the burglar had threatend to kill the man, or came in wielding a weapon, it's another matter. But he didn't...
A small time criminal does not deserve permanent disability, as well as debilitating medical bills, for a crime he probably committed to get enough money to survive...
He got what was coming to him.
What if there was a dog inside and not a booby trap, and the dog attacked him. Should we put the dog down for defending its territory?
And you said that burglar could be doing it to survive. I wasn't aware that being poor gave you a free pass when it came to crime. And what about the homeowner? You don't know their situation. They could be struggling too
I'm not sure what would happen in the case of a dog, but setting up a booby trap with the intention to maim or kill isn't exactly legal now, is it?
There was NO THREAT TO LIFE, that being the important part of this whole case...
That's like someone stealing a packet of crisps from Gregg's and having his fucking arms cut off...
Shoplifting and burglary are different.
But they shouldn't be stealing in the first place though. I actually can't believe you're trying to defend this
Not at all. Dogs are protective of their territory, so if they see someone that shouldn't be there, they could attack, and in some cases kill. So I'm asking, if that had happened should the dog have been put down because the man decided to break into a house that wasn't his?
I'm defending the intruder, not because what he did was acceptable, but because the owner commited a horrific act against a person. Whether that person is goodnight not doesn't effect the fact that he was given that treatment by another human with a completely unjustified reason...
B & E's happen all over the world, why should this man be allowed to shoot someone's legs, when there was no threat to life, and get away with it?
would you kill a man for stealing a car?
Maybe just permanently disfigure his face?
Maybe your house got tagged, would you shoot him in both shoulders so he could never spray paint again?
A man broke into my house the other year.
He stole shit that my family had spent a very long time working for.
He stole my dead brother's stuff that mom would just look at when she needed to.
My sister and I gave up our summer to buy tablets and a PlayStation, he stole the revolver my dad bought for a cousin, he trashed the house and my bulldog puppy walked with a limp for weeks.
And that's not even the worst of it.
This fucker had been in my home.
He hurt my dog.
He'd been in my little sister's room.
So I will not support a person who'd stolen months of my life and who knows where my sister sleeps.
this burglar hadn't actually stole anything, he had merely entitled the house before triggering the booby trap.
i am sorry for everything that happened to you, it is not something you should have to face.
But say that man was placed right in front of you, and to no extent of the law, he was entirely yours, you could do whatever you wanted. Would you, knowingly destroy the life of another man? I.e. permanent disability, disfigurement, perhaps even kill him. And could you hold your head high after doing that?
I'm not justifying a crime, if you actually read what I'm writing. It's my opinion that the dude went to far and commited a crime as well... The burglar was very much in the wrong, but so was the dude who shot his legs... You probably missed that point because you were so busy shaking with rage at an argument you didn't understand​...
And to famousone, that to me is not what a human should do, i can get why you feel that way, considering you lost so much, but personally i couldn't justify that killing or maiming. Two wrongs don't make a right. Thanks for your insight and I'm sorry you had to go through that.
So basically what you are all arguing about is the fact that some people actually feel sorry for the burglar and that its perfectly okay to break into someone elses house and steal their shit. Whether someone is in the house or not it doesn't matter. I don't condone booby traps. An alarm would have sufficed but at the same time its still pretty shitty you would defend someone who feels like they are entitled to YOUR property. I will boil it down to this, fuck thieves and everything they stand for. Here's an idea, get a job like the person you are stealing from has that way you can feel like your life has meaning. I have been robbed and let me tell you what if I could have set up a booby trap I would have ensured that they would die. Dead men tell no lies. The American justice system is designed to screw over whoever has the most money or the best attorney. Its not about right or wrong anymore. its about winning even if the criminal wins. this shit makes me so angry.
Again, robbouche, you much like milkshake whatever the name is, you failed to actually notice, that i didn't say it's okay to break into someone's house, what i said is that it is not okay to shoot someone's legs for doing so.
But then again, all you Americans seem like the type to shoot first and ask questions later. So I'm probably just arguing with a nation of brick walls. I'll leave you Ameri-tards to it...
You people just seem to lack an entire sense of morality and humanity...
@demon_razgriz. I see what you are saying an understand it. I do however agree with famousone also. I would shoot to kill if someone was in my house uninvited. Even if I didnt kill them an only maimed them, I'd still would not feel any remorse for them. Reason being is they have maimed my family an I when they entered our place of safety. They took away the place where we should be able to put our guard down an actually relax. I had my place burglarized couple of times as a kid. I felt like they were gonna come back an get my family an me. I could not sleep for weeks. I would climb in bed with my mom & dad an still cry. The ones B&E your house do not care if they scar (maim) you or not. They only want your stuff. I feel that if I kill or maim them, then others will not haft to feel unsafe in their castle of safety, due to this person B&E their home. An hopefully others would not B&E other people's houses, occupied or not. Now that I have a kid. I'd kill them with my hands if I had to.
Thank you for taking the time you read what I'd written and understand it. I can better understand why you'd be willing to do it, much like the way famousone explained it, your arguments go beyond "THIEF".
Read a strawman argument here and had to intervene again: for one, I am not defending burglary, I am defending a human being who got maimed because of a crime that did not threaten any human being. @sincere_milkshake, I loke your sincerity, but I feel like your comments here really lack compassion. A burglar is not a monster, he's a fucking human, just like yourself. And @mjlewis104, I've been burgled, my sister too. If one burglary made you hate every burglar, then you are kind of a selfish prick. Bye everyone, I am not coming here ever again.
@demon_razgriz, I like you.
When did I say that burglars weren't human?
I just don't agree with the fact that you can unlawfully enter someone's house, get injured by a contraption they've set up, and then sue them even though you're in the wrong
deleted
· 7 years ago
The burglar was in the wrong for breaking in.
The homeowner was in the wrong for setting up an illegal trap. The burglar was therefore wrongly injured by an illegal trap.
The burglar likely faced jail time.
The homeowner lost a civil suit and was forced to pay compensation.
You can do what you want in your house. The burglar should not have been in there.
deleted
· 7 years ago
The burglar should not have been there. Of that there is no doubt.
The homeowner should not have set up a booby-trap using deadly force. That is also illegal. It does not matter if it is your house.
I'm not the one down voting you.
And I didn't say it was legal to kill someone in your house, so I don't know why you've brought it up. The homeowner in this case set something up to protect his house while he wasn't there. There's no law against that
Also, I'm not American so that link is irrelevant to me, and the post doesn't specify America either
deleted
· 7 years ago
"You own your house and you are within your rights to do whatever the fuck you want to inside"
Murder in a your house is within "whatever the fuck you want to."
I literally gave you two sources. It is illegal in the United States.
You know what I meant, so don't try and twist my words
▼
deleted
· 7 years ago
It is also illegal in England. Other than that I do not know where countries fall on the legality of booby traps.
***
Edit
Spring guns and man-traps have been illegal in Britain since 1827.
·
Edited 7 years ago
deleted
· 7 years ago
Literally didn't twist them. It was a direct quote. What you said was wrong. I did no twisting.
We know it's illegal to make lethal booby traps, we're saying it's bullshit that it is. We [should] be able to do whatever we want and be absolutely confident in the security of our own homes.
And slightly off topic, in states with a castle doctrine you can use basically anything you want to keep your home safe. Admittedly the difference between that and a trap is that a trap is automatically triggered whereas active defense means you have to be pulling the trigger.
1
deleted
· 7 years ago
That's all I wanted someone to say, that it was an opinion that they should be legal, not that they ARE currently legal. I have to thank you for that.
As for whether it should or should not be allowed, it's easier to just say not allowed (but that's also just my opinion). If it is legal, then you have to say "Okay, this is legal, but THIS isn't." I doubt punji stakes would be legal, and you'd have to draw the line somewhere. Would you be allowed to have traps use deadly force knowing that emergency personnel or children could set them off or stop at non-lethal force like rock-salt shotguns? Would you be allowed to use deadly force but not if the method is "inhumane?"
That's why I think they should remain illegal.
My mom was punched in the head and he pushed down my 2 year old sister when they came home to walk in on a burglar. He escaped but she got in her car and hunted him down and he only got 3 years. We moved by then but fuck burglars
When I was a kid, my flat got burgled by a guy who had been there previously to fit in the TV box. I think we were the 12th place he'd burgled in the area. I don't remember how much time he got
It can't be helped.
they can't pull bullshit like this if they're dead
cops will tell you stuff like this if you ever ask them about it
What if there was a dog inside and not a booby trap, and the dog attacked him. Should we put the dog down for defending its territory?
And you said that burglar could be doing it to survive. I wasn't aware that being poor gave you a free pass when it came to crime. And what about the homeowner? You don't know their situation. They could be struggling too
See what I mean?
There was NO THREAT TO LIFE, that being the important part of this whole case...
That's like someone stealing a packet of crisps from Gregg's and having his fucking arms cut off...
But they shouldn't be stealing in the first place though. I actually can't believe you're trying to defend this
B & E's happen all over the world, why should this man be allowed to shoot someone's legs, when there was no threat to life, and get away with it?
would you kill a man for stealing a car?
Maybe just permanently disfigure his face?
Maybe your house got tagged, would you shoot him in both shoulders so he could never spray paint again?
He stole shit that my family had spent a very long time working for.
He stole my dead brother's stuff that mom would just look at when she needed to.
My sister and I gave up our summer to buy tablets and a PlayStation, he stole the revolver my dad bought for a cousin, he trashed the house and my bulldog puppy walked with a limp for weeks.
And that's not even the worst of it.
This fucker had been in my home.
He hurt my dog.
He'd been in my little sister's room.
So I will not support a person who'd stolen months of my life and who knows where my sister sleeps.
i am sorry for everything that happened to you, it is not something you should have to face.
But say that man was placed right in front of you, and to no extent of the law, he was entirely yours, you could do whatever you wanted. Would you, knowingly destroy the life of another man? I.e. permanent disability, disfigurement, perhaps even kill him. And could you hold your head high after doing that?
And to famousone, that to me is not what a human should do, i can get why you feel that way, considering you lost so much, but personally i couldn't justify that killing or maiming. Two wrongs don't make a right. Thanks for your insight and I'm sorry you had to go through that.
But then again, all you Americans seem like the type to shoot first and ask questions later. So I'm probably just arguing with a nation of brick walls. I'll leave you Ameri-tards to it...
You people just seem to lack an entire sense of morality and humanity...
@demon_razgriz, I like you.
I just don't agree with the fact that you can unlawfully enter someone's house, get injured by a contraption they've set up, and then sue them even though you're in the wrong
The homeowner was in the wrong for setting up an illegal trap. The burglar was therefore wrongly injured by an illegal trap.
The burglar likely faced jail time.
The homeowner lost a civil suit and was forced to pay compensation.
The homeowner should not have set up a booby-trap using deadly force. That is also illegal. It does not matter if it is your house.
Don't believe me?
https://www.quora.com/Do-Americans-have-the-right-to-booby-trap-their-property-with-mechanisms-that-may-result-in-grevious-bodily-harm-to-trespassers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantrap_(snare)
My first comment (above not in his thread) explains one of the reasons WHY they are illegal. Or you can downvote me and just tell me I'm wrong without knowing what the hell you're talking about.
And I didn't say it was legal to kill someone in your house, so I don't know why you've brought it up. The homeowner in this case set something up to protect his house while he wasn't there. There's no law against that
Murder in a your house is within "whatever the fuck you want to."
I literally gave you two sources. It is illegal in the United States.
***
Edit
Spring guns and man-traps have been illegal in Britain since 1827.
And slightly off topic, in states with a castle doctrine you can use basically anything you want to keep your home safe. Admittedly the difference between that and a trap is that a trap is automatically triggered whereas active defense means you have to be pulling the trigger.
As for whether it should or should not be allowed, it's easier to just say not allowed (but that's also just my opinion). If it is legal, then you have to say "Okay, this is legal, but THIS isn't." I doubt punji stakes would be legal, and you'd have to draw the line somewhere. Would you be allowed to have traps use deadly force knowing that emergency personnel or children could set them off or stop at non-lethal force like rock-salt shotguns? Would you be allowed to use deadly force but not if the method is "inhumane?"
That's why I think they should remain illegal.