K-12 is free, higher education is to the student's own benefit, assuming they don't just waste their time.
The military is a public service, on top of that it's a deterrence against conventional war. That deterrence is the only reason countries like Sweden can afford not to have any significant military of their own.
Education is a public service also. Costs for higher ed are out of control, and eventually the loan bubble will burst. I think public funding for community colleges is a fantastic idea.
There used to be a cap on how much money banks could loan to students for school, then the feds decided it'd be better if they made loans easier to get, and offered more money, too. Now the average student can "afford" more debt, so the schools pumped up their costs to keep the number of students manageable, and to increase profit margins
Actually it does make sense @silvermyth. Consider the facts. What is a common complaint? Educated specialists with loans unable to get jobs, working for minimum wage. Consider the US produces the most, and some of the highest quality technical professionals in the world. We have more scientists than anyone. We don’t lack skilled people- they lack jobs. Scientists don’t have enough labs to employ them, enough funds for research. The military is the largest employer in the world. Contractors, cleaning staff, logistics pros, caterers, construction, welders, machinists, defense suppliers. That’s engineers and blue collar workers as well as managers. That’s enlisted personnel and foreign companies. The US military in part acts as disguised unemployment. It gets money to “the bottom” as opposed to for profit private health which sucks money to the top. If we changed the system and had public health care it may then not make sense. As is though it’s socialism and public welfare in Disguise.
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· 5 years ago
@famousone wow, didn’t know about that, glad uni is super affordable where I live
@guest Can’t disagree with you there. With the current system, money made by doctors would be sucked to the top. If the medical field didn’t charge so much money, say it was paid for by taxes, that wouldn’t be the case. And what’s more, while I don’t deny that the military provides jobs, it doesn’t provide all jobs and not everyone qualifies. Having a military pushes innovation faster and so does war. And also, while America’s schools might be a little screwed up, I notice an abundance of kids who want to be scientists for science’s sake. It would be nice if they could all get educations without it having to relate to the military.
It would be nice. That world exists. It’s called: “Star Trek.” In our world being a scientist is expensive. Science isn’t free nor are particle accelerators and cutting edge materials. So science beyond basic “fun” popular science seldom gets done for science sake- there is almost always a motivation, and that motivation is almost always power- most often in the form of political currency, or hard cash. Profitable science is funded, the rest fights for scraps. Science without funds cannot pay scientists. We are back to square one. It’s easy to blame a system or “an elite” for it- but few people truly live for science or even work for it- most like pay checks, and many like those to be larger than minimum wage. So it’s really a problem of society more than anything. The desire for comfort, status, and choice in our lives tends to drive us all. It’s really about choosing how we’d like the system to be messed up or making huge social and personal changes and sacrifice for the abstract.
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· 5 years ago
@ilikemoderation didn’t watch the video until just now, seems like if the government is gonna give loans they should also limit how much universities can charge. Pretty sure that’s the case where I’m from, tuition is the same in all unis in my country at €2000 a year
Yea. That video does a really good job of explaining the inflation behind it. The problem is that you can’t blame the universities for wanting money and trying to run a business. People should be smart enough to say you know what, I’m not going there because of the costs instead of saying oh well I’ll just do loans for it. That’s the basis of the free market but everyone is to stick into going to certain schools or don’t want to put in the time to go elsewhere
Dunno how all the military training is so cheap, then. Because they also get basic first aid training as well, right? And they're not just being trained, but we practically pay them to be trained too.
We pay them to be trained in trade for a pledge of 4 years of service to their country. To eat sleep and travel where and when needed. To put their lives in danger for less than many fast food workers salaries. That at any point in the future after being retired they can be brought back to mandatory service as deemed needed. Those who only “learn to kill” don’t have very good prospects on leaving service. Those who are trained to do more complex things must pledge a minimum 8 years to the military. Compare that to doctors who have total freedom and while performing a service are not bound to serve and are free to do what they feel best serves them. Who make a salary after 4 years akin to a General with 30+ years of military service. This isn’t about military spending it’s about for profit health care. Being a doctor costs because being a doctor is very personally profitable in a system built on profit. Pay doctors $30k a year and make them sign service contracts and see who lines up.
You're only trading at least four of the best years of your life and agreeing to go to war on your nation's behalf and risk death or worse.
Nevermind that the Army will teach you whatever job you want, and the overwhelming majority pick jobs that have nothing to do with combat. Engineering, law, electricity, medicine, and so much more, just as "free" as getting to learn how to kill. They even pay better too.
Lol no, that's not what the Army does at all. Nor the Marines. The Navy and Airforce..ish but no, they'd all rather just make you a grunt and send you off. Only with a decent asvab score do they even take your pick into consideration
I got my contract reserved before going to MEPS. They told me I could walk out with no consequence if they tried to make me sign something else, and wait until what I wanted was open. Admittedly I scored high on my ASVAB, but there is still twenty POGs behind every grunt.
Never trust a recruiter. Never buy promises from the military. Nothing a recruiter says is legally binding. All that is binding is what it says in the contract and the contract says you are theirs to do with as they please. That said the army does have lots of opportunities for specialist MOCs. You need to stand out, and you need to fight for it and slog through plenty of “lost” paperwork, delays, and re submitting forms because someone else made a mistake and put the stamp at a 46 degree angle instead of 45. If you’re persistent you can get what you want. Don’t qualify marksman, jump training, all the fun “cool” stuff. If they invest hundreds of thousands into making you good at combat- combat is what you’ll do. Don’t get tempted into some REMF desk job to ride out your time. You an still end up in rotation and soft. Look for opportunities to do “smart” work. They try to keep smart people alive, and smart people who follow orders and get results without making waves can work up.
Combat Medic sound good?
Anyways, be good at combat if you want, just understand that you'll be expected to do your job. And remember the Noncom's mantra: "Don't blame me, blame your recruiter"
Sorry. Didn’t mean to imply one shouldn’t if that’s their passion or goal. Many people think so due to youth and having never had deployment or combat experience- and some actually take to it like a fish to water. What I meant was that if one isn’t planning to make the military a career, when getting back to civilian life certain things like rifle marksman aren’t as highly marketable as electrician, treaded vehicle mechanic, ground or flight crew, etc. While at the same time, having skills and training that make you well suited for these non marketable tasks makes you more likely to get those and less likely to be made a telecom expert. The world needs combat medics. No part of me now or ever envies them. It’s not the job I’d choose if it was mine to make, but if the job chose me I’d give it 110%. The military isn’t great about what happens after the military though. That’s the part they leave you to figure out. I’d try to make sure you land on your feet.
@zinope You are dead wrong about the Army. If you score high enough on the ASVAB and the slot is available, they let you pick any specialty you want.
That's not all that different from scoring high enough on the SAT to get into the school you want and a prospective employer having an opening for that position wben you apply.
Yeah. People also like to ignore the differences in things like tax rates. Sweden is an awesome country, but like any country it has good and bad. There is no such thing as “free” by the laws of physics themselves.
Mmmmmk have fun getting blown to smitherines w/o a military
On a serious note a doctor will make 100,000+ Dollars a year someone enlisted is gonna make 20-30000 they makE much less than a doctor and they are actually both saving lives if it wasn't for the military you would be dead (assuming USA) Russia, North Korea just 2 that we have been at a stalemate with at some time in the last 50yrs. So go ahead and get rid of the military but have fun dying
There is a strong anti military tone to this post. Look at the details. The military is reduced to “teaching to kill” not only (wrongly) implying one learns to kill in basic training, but that the primary function of the military is to kill. “But” compares saving lives to killing. Doctors save lives, the military takes them. That is the message- and by extension, that doctor is a more noble profession. The next logical course the discussion takes given what we can infer on this persons views, would be the suggestion one divert military funding, or possibly eliminate it entirely. It’s jumping ahead a bit as maybe this person 100% supports the military. Tell me honestly though- do you believe they do based on what you see here? So maybe an extreme reaction, but the reasoning behind it is at least clear.
I think there's positives and negatives in everything. This person obviously doesn't support the army killing and I assume by extension, war. We need an army, no questions asked, things do happen(it serves a multitude of reasons) but we also need healing, way more frequently I might add. While the difference is played up to really hammer down the message, something that is very important in very short text to leave an impact, it may not represent the whole argument. We obviously interpreted this differently but I do believe they are pointing to change something to even this out. That's just my opinion though dude, you can dismiss it entirely it ya want.
Not dismissing anyone’s opinions. Merely answering a question. I too believe that we need a military, and a “perfect” universe would not. Maybe someday, but not today. You are right that healing is needed far more often, and the impact on any one is usually more profound at the individual level from the latter. The key though is what we choose to compare, and the words we use. The comparison we make in such examples is conciously or not deliberate. The choice to compare a public servant to a private for profit entity working in a for profit health care system is deliberate. The military is far removed from offering free health care, but the for profit healthcare system and education system both are direct comparisons that feed into and off of the cost to become a doctor. Doctors are not public servants. They are well paid professionals. How does one weight indenturing and risking your own life for $20k against saving the life of another for $150k? I suggest one doesn’t.
Military training isn't free. The effective cost to the government is $50,000 to $72,000 for Basic Training. AIT alone can run well into low six figures. Mine was in the 120k range.
True. Nothing is ever free. Someone pays the price. “Free” college isn’t free either. The burden is carried through some other means. People are usually fine when someone else pays a price and they see a direct benefit, but they often balk at paying a direct price to benefit another or an abstract like “society” where they don’t see an immediate or any meaningful return in their own life.
The military is a public service, on top of that it's a deterrence against conventional war. That deterrence is the only reason countries like Sweden can afford not to have any significant military of their own.
Nevermind that the Army will teach you whatever job you want, and the overwhelming majority pick jobs that have nothing to do with combat. Engineering, law, electricity, medicine, and so much more, just as "free" as getting to learn how to kill. They even pay better too.
Anyways, be good at combat if you want, just understand that you'll be expected to do your job. And remember the Noncom's mantra: "Don't blame me, blame your recruiter"
That's not all that different from scoring high enough on the SAT to get into the school you want and a prospective employer having an opening for that position wben you apply.
On a serious note a doctor will make 100,000+ Dollars a year someone enlisted is gonna make 20-30000 they makE much less than a doctor and they are actually both saving lives if it wasn't for the military you would be dead (assuming USA) Russia, North Korea just 2 that we have been at a stalemate with at some time in the last 50yrs. So go ahead and get rid of the military but have fun dying
There's just no cost to you.