Most immigrants came to the country legally, but their vistas expired and they never returned. And while that is still illegal, its not the crossing the border in the middle of the night sort of act many people think it is.
Also, stealing music is a crime, if you know about it and don't report it you are aiding criminals. The point I am making here is that "criminal" doesn't mean "dangerous individual".
Yes, if one wants to stand on moral absolutism where there are only criminals and not- you’re going to have to lock up most of the population. The person who never breaks a single law is a statistical anomaly. By the letter of the law it is a federal crime to share passwords where a single user is authorized to access a system under terms which another user isn’t bound to- like sharing credentials for a service like steam or Netflix. People who use emulators are- in almost all cases, breaking the law- despite all the chat room lawyers who claim it isn’t. It isn’t illegal under specific conditions which most people doing it don’t meet.
Even if legal by state- marijuana use/possession are still federal crimes. But no one here has ever used marijuana or drank alcohol under age have they? And of course- on top of all the ways a person can and likely has broken the law big and small- then you have things like Gay marriage- which up until recently were very much 100% illegal in the US. Until recently it was still illegal to just engage in homosexual “conduct” or “relationships” in places in the US. Let’s not forget that t was also illegal to have certain inter racial relationships as well. So is “illegal immigration” illegal? Well- it is in the name. Yes it is. Starting a rebellion was also illegal but that didn’t stop the southern states. There was no legal ground for revolution against Britain but that didn’t stop the USA. Illegal doesn’t always mean wrong- or was illegal to drink booze in the USA for awhile too. Like weed and gay/ interracial marriage it was the fact people wouldn’t abide the law that changed it.
The reactions here are unbelievable. A huge majority of illegal immigrants are people fleeing their country either because their family is starving or because of wars and crime. Current anti-immigrant laws are sending people back to countries destroyed by corruption, crime and famine. Not saying there are no bad apples, but they don't spoil the whole batch.
They can only claim asylum from political or religious persecution of the homicidal variety, and even that's only at the first safe harbor they get to. Beggars have no right to shop around.
And the ones being deported are not the ones waiting, but those who are known criminals or who's asylum claims have already been heard in court. Whether they bothered to show up or not.
You have a house (I hope you do, if not, imagine), you built on your land using your own money.
But one day, you found a homeless man living in your closet. He didn't do no harm, actually, he took out the trash in your room sometimes which was a little creepy but wasn't so bad.
Now your friend was having a little issue at home so he asked to stay with you. You two shared rent, housework, etc. He wasn't so happy about the homeless man in the closet though.
You asked the homeless man to move out, he was upset, telling a while story about how shitty his life was, saying how you should feel pity for him and let him stay.
Now you do feel bad for poor guy but your friend was persistent "dude! We don't know him! We can't let a stranger stay in our place! He got zero paper about himself, his education or anything, besides, what's he even doing here? We don't know!"
There is huge difference between a friend and a homeless man as much as the difference between immigrants and illegal
immigrants.
Neither the government nor the people can afford the risk of having illegal immigrants in the country.
Have you seen the homeless people living under the bridges, burning trash to warm themselves during winter, turning sick due to dirty water and bad food? That is how illegal immigrants gonna end up if they fail to find job. As they're illegal immigrants, there is absolute so guarantee that they can find a stable job.
Poverty is the mother of crime.
.
Now instead of saying the country is cruel for having strict law on illegal immigrants, why don't we point the knife at the country that couldn't provide a better life for its people or at least give them hope that they can be better but no, it's so bad that the people cross dangerous rivers, roads, borders to go other country while breaking the law and can end up in jail.
There is much truth and practical wisdom in your words as always Rosi. But the one thing I do want to say is that we can actually take another option- we can choose to get to know the homeless man. If we know him- he becomes a friend and not a danger, or we discover he is a danger and THEN we make him leave. The legal immigration process is designed to help make sure that we aren’t harboring dangerous criminals and the like- but we can add to the process- making a thing illegal pushes it into the dark where we can’t see it. How can you get background or even a count of people if they know that coming forward puts them in legal danger?
Things like amnesties encourage those people to come forward because they have nothing to fear. They can be counted and verified without danger. We can know who they are and where they are and how to find them if we need to for a crime etc. and more so- it lets you know that 99% of those who do not come forward have something to hide. When simply being alive in a place makes you a criminal- the fugitive murderer and the single mom hoping to give her kids more both have to hide as criminals. When that working mom knows she’ll be granted amnesty- she comes forward and the criminal stays in the dark. At that point you know you aren’t dealing with people who just didn’t have the money or couldn’t wait for the years long process.
The funny thing is- one of the paths and requirements to gaining US citizenship is that foreigners must live there for 2-3 years before they can be citizens. This not only allows them to acclimate- but helps demonstrate that they are productive and not dangerous- having had a home and not committed any crimes for that period. But an “illegal” who’s held a job and not been arrested and had a home for 10,20+ years is deported on the basis that they aren’t American and might be dangerous? What we are seeing is a failing of the law. The laws and the system need to change. People push back against ICE for deporting “working families” and “people seeking freedom.” Ok. Filter those people out and then deport the people who are obviously and blatantly criminal and what is there to push back against?
Do that and people worried about security can rest easy knowing we are deporting potential and actual dangerous offenders, and people worries about families and freedom seekers can know that we are giving those people every chance to make themselves known and demonstrate they aren’t a threat. The financial and educational level as well as the knowledge of US immigration laws in comparison to the levels often available to those who illegally cross the border are often huge. For many- legal methods just aren’t achievable. It costs many thousands of dollars and can take years to legally bring one person- then thousands more and more years to bring the rest of a nuclear family. We incentivize illegal crossings by not making the process more accessible.
One of the greatest ruses this party has ever pulled off is convincing half the country that it's selfish to be prideful or to stand up for your own culture.
The irony is that that same culture is responsible for SO much of the quality of life everyone currently enjoys.
It’s a perversion of idealism. There is nothing wrong with enjoying and embracing your own culture. There is nothin wrong with wanting to preserve cultures. There’s also nothing wrong with the evolution of culture. Anyone reading this likely isn’t Amish and probably enjoys many types of food and entertainment etc- not to mention not being held to the virtues of manners from antiquity- so we can appreciate that our forbearers allowed their own cultural and technological evolution.
The perversion occurs when we take ideas to an extreme. It’s reasonable to say that we shouldn’t put one culture “above” others, that in a society of inclusiveness we should strive to leave behind the elements of a culture that would exclude or subjugate others- and that at their core those aren’t actually cultural tenants but bigotry normalized and passed off as such. But when we pervert that too far from “your culture shouldn’t seek to trample other cultures, your culture shouldn’t be the defining and paramount culture...” to become “your culture should t exist because it contains these elements” “you should be ashamed of your culture...” those aren’t the same thing and we’ve gone too far.
Embrace your culture. Carry on dances and holidays and language and the like- but let it evolve. Let it co exist in a world where journeys that took a lifetime can be done in a day. We lived in a world where people on opposite sides of the globe and far flung corners may never meet. Today we live in a world where these people mingle regularly, where their ideas travel to each other st the speed of light and into each other’s homes. That means there are thousands of cultures all in constant proximity. That means these cultures must- and will- evolve to be able to coexist.
That means that if we do not want our culture to be destroyed- we shouldn’t destroy the cultures of others- and that means we must all leave behind ideas that make it so we can’t get along. Antiquated ways from when the world was smaller and we could easily exist in an enclave isolated from other influences and ways. So those parts of our culture that would prevent us from coexisting or seek dominance or removal of others rights to their ways need refined and removed until we can all get along and see that differences exist but they don’t keep us from getting along or even co evolving together.
That we would encourage wasting more tax dollars on people who haven't made the effort to make a full legal transition into becoming a citizen of this nation is concerning to me.
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· 4 years ago
Leave this comment thread, it's not worth it.
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· 4 years ago
Friendly reminder that illegally crossing the border is a misdemeanor. People don’t deserve to be ripped apart from their children, some even dying, because they want to live a safe life.
“Why don’t they come here legally?” They do! In fact most illegal immigrants came here legally and over stayed their visa. Applying for asylum is actively being made harder to do by the trump organization. It’s not as easy as you think, and some of you need to learn empathy.
Well yes. I mean- what sane person wouldn’t think that littering, walking, driving without a seat belt, possessing small quantities of marijuana, speeding, running a stop sign, having window tint too dark or an expired registration shouldn’t be punished by being locked in a cage in inhuman conditions and having your children taken away? 80% of Crimes I’m America are misdemeanor offenses and darnit- we just aren’t being hard enough on crime. I call on all those who support the current situation at the border by DEMANDING similar responses to other misdemeanor offenses. Anything less would be unamerican. Well... or just, you know... treat illegal immigration more like any other minor crime I guess.
Yeah I totally agree with you here. The point of pointing out that it’s a misdemeanor is because you have all these people saying these people deserve to be put in camps because they broke the law. The treatments inhumanly disgusting, and these people just want to live a safe life.
They don't deserve it for breaking the law, it's simply the only way to keep track of them while they're being processed, as the vast majority of those released decide that hearings and court dates are optional.
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· 4 years ago
“Keep track of them”. I don’t think thousands of children going missing and multiple people dying in detainment is “keeping track of them”. Ever heard of concentration camps? You know, camps where people are held against their wills in inhumane conditions to the point they die?
Nobody ever broke into a concentration camp. We aren't inviting them in. Shit just gets fucked up when hundreds of thousands of people show up, almost as if to deliberately overwhelm the system and it's resources.
So then, any time a mass of people commit mass petty crime at once- such as when’s large number of peaceful protesters participate in civil disobedience- that’s grounds to justify suspending the justice system or human rights of prisoners? Simply by virtue of an inability to keep up- or as a punitive measure against mass peaceful disobedience? That seems very totalitarian and dystopian. More so when you factor in this is the treatment of those being ACCUSED of a crime- not those who have been given due process and were convicted of any crime. Now- if a will to disrupt the system makes the offense worse- we can say that there is no indication immigrants are conspiring to use their numbers to overwhelm the system- just that a whole lot of people happen to be doing the same thing.
I'd be more sympathetic if we had some way of ensuring this is their only offense, but first and foremost American government institutions are for the American people.
Any system being overwhelmed will operate below the standard. In cases of mass civil disobedience by citizens we can get their IDs and get to them when we get to them. In the case of illegals, we cannot track addresses or IDs with catch and release, and it has been consistently demonstrated that the vast majority don't care for court orders or hearings.
It is better to keep them all where we can see them then to tolerate any outsiders we do not know pose at most a negligible threat to the American people.
Ok, but here are some decided flaws with that logic. 1. The American government serves the interests of the American people. The way we treat “outsiders” is a reflection of the American people and effects our interests. Even prisoners of war are guaranteed certain rights to treatment. While you could MAYBE justify conditions like what we are seeing for enemy combatants- we can’t really justify their use against civilians and children on our home soil can we?
2. These “outsiders” are citizens of the United States who have broken our laws and possibly their own. Ignoring the issue of wether we should simply block and detain then hand over to their governments for processing or not- it IS very much in the interest of the American people how we treat foreigners on US soil who commit crimes because people from the US routinely visit foreign countries- especially those we share borders with- and out treatment of “outsiders” can effect the treatment those countries give US “outsiders” when abroad and if they are arrested under suspicion of a crime.
3. At the point a person is detained for illegal border crossing- they are not guilty of a crime. We must prove a crime- they are detained under suspicion of a crime. While unlikely- it is possible for a US citizen to be detained for violating their own borders- it can happen on accident as well such as a navigational mistake- and if they aren’t able to produce proof of citizenship when stopped- they too would be detained. They would face the same treatment and conditions as a foreigner would. It is certainly not on the interest of US citizens to have the law administered in such a way that a US citizen could be detained in unfit conditions, without trail, and under presumed guilt as opposed to presumed innocence until proven otherwise.
We didn't invite them over. They know the conditions aren't great. Maybe they smell amnesty on the horizon? Doesn't matter, they are trying to circumvent the legal means of entry. It's not like the conditions are secret, for all we know they very well could be enemy combatants. I'm done caring what Eurocrats think of us, they've been butthurt since we started cutting off the free money.
As unlikely as the scenario may seem- so is it unlikely a person who looks just like you and drives the same car would commit a crime, or that a persons identical twin would commit a crime- or any number of scenarios which can and do or have occurred are in which a person who is completely innocent of a crime may come to be suspected and arrested for said crime. Hence the importance of a presumption of innocence and decent treatment until guilt is PROVEN to the standard of criminal proof.
The American justice system doesn’t operate on the principal that one receives due process and fair trial unless it is inconvenient or the evidence seems strong enough to indicate you’re guilty and red handed and don’t need a trial. It doesn’t operate under the principal that the basic rights of humanity and justice apply only to citizens.
The constitution and bill of rights of the United States very specifically used the words “citizen” as well as “people” etc. where applicable. They states that all PEOPLE within the jurisdiction of the United States, have certain rights and liberties that are considered by the true American, by the founding spirit of America- to be inherent rights of all humans on earth- but that whatever other powers may decide and what abuses to freedom may occur beyond our reach- that America will offer these things to any and all human beings within our influence- as these are not rights exclusive to citizens but inherent to the world of civilized humanity.
The document which our nation was founded on holds it self evident that ALL MEN are created equal- and quite literally says that the crown and no one else has the right to to suppress the rights of others. It establishes a nation founded on- who’s principal justification for treason and rebellion was that NO POWER, NO NATION, has the right to treat ANY PERSON less than.
This is where ideals take a backseat to practicality. Smugglers, sex slave traffickers, terrorists, and other prohibited persons have taken advantage of our porous borders. Washington talked big on liberty and justice, but he was still willing to slit British throats as they slept on Christmas Eve. We tolerate, no, we revere career politicians who clearly hate what the founders built, who shit on the constitution on a regular basis. These glorious leaders have changed the rules already, so clearly we the people have strayed pretty far from the founders' vision.
Correcting course will be painful enough without flooding the nation with millions of aliens who don't know or care what America is.
I agree with you in principal. Big ideals without big guns usually don’t go far or last long. In many books the allies are “heroes” of the great battle of “good vs evil” that was WW2- but we did baaaad things. At a point survival demands you do what is necessary to survive- or you perish. You and your best friend stranded on a desolate island long enough- there will come a point where rescuers either find one person and an eaten corpse, or two corpses. The key to our humanity however is at what point we decide to eat our friend. Do we do it the first day because we know we will have to? Do we exhaust every option and get to an inch from death and hardly have the strength to eat them before we give in?
How hard we try before we start slitting throats is what determines wether we deserve to survive. If these immigrants would destroy America and have no idea what America is- if we take the low road because it’s easier then we don’t know what America is. If we build a land where guards stop you and ask for your papers, then treat you as inhuman and send you to the camps if you can’t prove then and there you have the “superior birthright” then we do not know what America is and we have destroyed America. While neither option sounds good and we don’t have to take either- I’d rather open our borders completely and let what comes come than try so hard to hold on to America that we destroy it ourselves. If it’s going to die I’d rather it die as it stood- a beacon of freedom and human rights than see it die by being overthrown by fascism.
Order of priorities:
American lives
My life/my soldiers' lives
Allied personnel
Neutral peoples
Enemy civilians
Enemy combatants.
In World War 2, we deliberately bombed enemy noncombatants, terrorized civilian populations, and in some cases executed POWs and saboteurs even after neutralizing them. I have no illusions about what we've done. At the end of the day I will see that list burn from bottom to top before I allow any harm to befall those listed on top.
I will see snipers, mines, fire, and WMDs deployed along the border before I tolerate any potential risk from outside.
You can talk about international law, but all power comes from the barrel of a gun.
We aren’t at “the end” nor have we yet lit the match that would leave the world in ash and blood. There’s a difference between being willing to crawl through the blood and ash is a fine thing- being determined to have things end up that way is another matter entirely.
The republic, our sovereignty, and the systems we built are under attack. From without and within.
The vast majority of popular presidential candidates favor the alien over the citizen, and stripping the citizen of what's theirs.
Half the government is bending over backwards for anti-semitic, racist, irrational, overgrown children, and the international community presumes to hold us to their systems and agreements, our sovereignty be damned.
Being under attack... the other day- my home was under attack by ants. I managed to solve the problem without having to burn my house down, set traps, or incarcerate my neighbors. Now- if the problem escalated far enough I might need to resort to extremes, but proportional force is a key tactical concept. We have nuclear weapons- but not every battle should involve their use should it? Despite the nature and ferociousness of combat with the Germans and Japanese we are not pretty friendly- largely because despite any justification to do so- instead of treating them like enemies after the war we went out of our way to treat them with respect and establish good will.
Are there problems and risks to illegal immigration? Sure. Is it a large scale issue? Sure. Do we have less extreme tools to try to deal with it? Yeah. We do. We have lots of options to use and going straight for the one which has a very real human cost isn’t moral or practical for any long term prosperity.
The barracks have a roach problem. My room is fine since I sealed every crack by the door and windows.
Does one or two still get in? Yes. I crush them and carry on with my day. Meanwhile, my neighbor found a pop tart box full of the fuckers.
People are campaigning on open borders. If I must choose between extremes, I'll lock everything out and kill whoever tries to slip through. Ideally, I'd take heavier patrols, expand points of entry, and a revamped legal process, with stiffer penalties on aliens.
The wall, or expanded border security in general, is a happy medium. But if major factions keep pushing extremes, I will back one over the other.
If one doesn’t want extremes- why start at extremes? If the solution involves more checkpoints and personnel and other measures and relies on those to succeed- why not put those things in place BEFORE building a giant wall- and then add increasing measures as needed? Now- I know you weren’t likely intending to call these people human cockroaches who are trying to steal your pop tarts- but unlike roaches human beings are smarter and can use tools.
The roach has neither the motivation or the means to circumvent your simply barriers. It can get the same thing easier somewhere else so will. What other country is easily accessible from Mexico and has the wealth and potential of the United States for them? Your simple steps may stop a roach but not a rat- and certainly not a human.
But really, I don't want to lock out the world or kill everyone to even approach the border. I'm just pissed that someone raised a foreign flag on American soil, weary of eurocrats hypocritical complaints, and scared that the likes of Cortez and Omar are taking over, making Sen. Sanders loom down to earth and sane.
There certainly is a such thing as “liberalism gone too far.” The truth is that liberal politicians have agendas too. It would be nice if they all just really wanted to make it rain puppies- but they’ve got their own lobbyists to serve and their own friends to take care of. So they’re crooked too. Very few people care about equality or ideals as much as they care about using them as a front to get what they want and benefits them. Nature of the game.
We get these “heroes” when we conflate ideals with people. Trust ideals- don’t trust the people. Bernie Sanders is a nut job in my mind. He speaks some good philosophy but I don’t think his talk is compatible with reality. There can be a future where things that can’t exist now do exist- but everyone wants to jump straight there. It takes time. I think that’s the major problem. Miscommunication and poor planning.
A world without borders sounds nice. I like to think someday it might exist. I don’t think that day is in any living persons lifetime though. But if I say “world without borders...” I’ll get jumped on by a bunch of angry folks who say it won’t work and list what’s wrong with that idea. Yes. It won’t work and has lots of problems... in 2019. In 2295, who knows? That’s what we need to do as people- set lofty and noble goals- for the future- and work towards those goals.
We aren’t ready in 2019 to disillusioned e the border- and that’s not a good idea today. But if you want to look like Vin diesel when you wear a tank top to your reunion in 5 years- you have to start getting ready today. Don’t go out and eat a 4000 calorie diet, or rack 400lbs on the bench press right now. You aren’t ready. Start out small and build up over time- and in 5 years if you keep trying you’ll get there.
If we want a “utopian future,” it takes more than 5 years. Likely more than 50, very likely more than 500 even with focus and consistency. You do too much too fast and you either get overwhelmed and quit- if you get hurt. Fast and radical change usually is bad- in society a day change is one that takes generations.
People seem to be ignorant of the fact that the age we live in is an anomaly. A smaller proportion of people are starving, enslaved, persecuted, or otherwise suffering than ever before in human history.
The systems and ideals that allowed this to be must be guarded jealously. The systems collapsing under their own weight will send everything into chaos, and there's no reason to believe what comes out the other side will be better, or even as good.
But if the goal is one where we can “all get along and be happy and preserve freedom and human rights” and all the miss America shit- building a literal wall between people and doing mass internment’s in inhumane conditions doesn’t get us closer- it sets us back many generations.
Illegal immigration is a fly buzzing- not a charging rhino. I see many, including you, acting like this is a sudden gun shot wound to the chest- an imminent and sudden threat that we must act quickly and with haste because it’s better to do the wrong thing than to die- so even if all that we have is a jackhammer then we will use that to try and make the pain and injury stop before we bleed out.
But it’s more like a toothache. It’s a pain that has been with you as long as you can think back- dull and throbbing but real- and always there. Just like constantly dripping water on the forehead- the mind begins to feel a frustration and agony that makes a small and relatively harmless thing ballon into a crisis. To make it stop you’ll do anything. Maybe even remove your whole jaw- and in this state of mind the idea of just having a cavity drilled out and a crown put on either doesn’t even occur- or the frenzied mind sees it as relief that will take too long or cost too much.
30 million. Electoral rebalancing. Campaigns on aliens over citizens. Refusal to integrate. Some desiring to make America just a bit like the shitholes they're "fleeing" from.
You're right about one thing though, it ain't a sudden gunshot. It's a severed vein, and we've been administering blood thinners instead of applying hemostatics.
In the long game though- that’s the best option. It’s the option that solves your problem and leaves you most whole. But those tiny nagging things once they’ve blown up in our minds become monsters we can’t imagine could be toppled with anything less than the “nuclear option” because we just want it done- at any cost- so we know it’s done and we are sure it’s done. But if you tear off your bottom jaw to end the tooth ache- and find out it was an upper tooth all along- you can’t go back and undo what is done can you?
Combat is quick and brutal. You do your planning ahead of time because decisions made in crisis tend to be poorer than they could be. If you have to make a call that wasn’t anticipated- you make it fast and stick to it. But in society, in regular life outside of violence- the “right” solution is often the one which takes the longest and is the hardest- that’s why being “moral” is considered a badge of honor. It’s easy to get results when you don’t care how they are gotten- it takes fortitude, will, wisdom, and more to get the right results the right way- and in the end it often matters how things get done because today’s solutions dictate tomorrow’s problems.
Then we'll keep the intruders in the camps for as long as it takes to sort them, unless they choose to be sent back.
Would be terrible to do something hasty that would hand a significant amount of authority to people who don't care about the long-term, or even what America is, so much as they care about how many corners they need to cut or crimes they need to commit just to improve their own station.
It’s a little more reasonable from where I’m sitting- but still not quite palatable. You talked about living in Texas- I live in California, the state with the most illegal immigrants by all counts. Never caused me any major problems. Most of them go do jobs no one I know wants to do for pay no one I know would work for. We don’t compete for the same jobs, the same homes. Most all I’ve known have been as relatively law abiding as anyone else, and at the end of the day why would I care if they’re here illegally or not? They aren’t stopping me from living my life, and I’m no more afraid any one of them will commit a crime against me than I am a citizen will. Ive lived in some very bad places- places where if you live there more than a couple months you WILL get at least robbed. I’m more worried about what US citizens will do than illegal immigrants.
It ain't just about you. Electoral votes are going to be recalculated, there's a drain on social services and education, and being able to exploit them is hardly a good reason to keep them around.
So they haven't directly hurt you. That's hardly even a cold comfort to those they have hurt. The ones who are protected by a rogue state, to the point where accused felons will be released without trial at the slightest hint of ICE showing up to get rid of a criminal who shouldn't be our problem in the first place.
It ain't just about you. Electoral votes are going to be recalculated, there's a drain on social services and education, and being able to exploit them is hardly a good reason to keep them around.
So they haven't directly hurt you. That's hardly even a cold comfort to those they have hurt. The ones who are protected by a rogue state, to the point where accused felons will be released without trial at the slightest hint of ICE showing up to get rid of a criminal who shouldn't be our problem in the first place.
Harboring a fugitive, aiding and abetting the commission of a crime, and there's certainly an argument to made for treason if it turns out that even one illegal is somehow connected to an entity hostile to the United States.
They got their due process and were denied for some reason or other, this is no more admirable than helping a thief, pusher, slaver, or murderer.
I disagree. I don't think entering our country is an equivalent crime to slavery or murder.
Aiding and abetting a runaway is a crime. And it's a crime which can mean you are helling a rebellious teen get away with drug abuse. But it's also a crime which can mean you are helping a scared teen that has an abusive homelife, but doesn't want to end up in the foster care system. I'm not saying it's a good thing to do, but it certainly opens the door to get area.
I can’t agree on the black and white interpretation. I talk about it above- but many laws are changed because people refuse to follow them. The USA didn’t follow any legal process in leaving the crown- enough people just said “we don’t want to follow your laws...” stuck to it, and won. Enough blacks refused to sit in the back of the bus or lay down and take a law they found unjust- and we changed the laws. It’s not just soldiers- it’s a duty of any patriotic American to resist and refuse that they find morally wrong. If you get caught- you broke the law. There is a punishment. You will face it if the law decides you were wrong. If the law decides you were right- history will remember you as a freedom fighter and not a criminal.
Also, stealing music is a crime, if you know about it and don't report it you are aiding criminals. The point I am making here is that "criminal" doesn't mean "dangerous individual".
And the ones being deported are not the ones waiting, but those who are known criminals or who's asylum claims have already been heard in court. Whether they bothered to show up or not.
But one day, you found a homeless man living in your closet. He didn't do no harm, actually, he took out the trash in your room sometimes which was a little creepy but wasn't so bad.
Now your friend was having a little issue at home so he asked to stay with you. You two shared rent, housework, etc. He wasn't so happy about the homeless man in the closet though.
You asked the homeless man to move out, he was upset, telling a while story about how shitty his life was, saying how you should feel pity for him and let him stay.
Now you do feel bad for poor guy but your friend was persistent "dude! We don't know him! We can't let a stranger stay in our place! He got zero paper about himself, his education or anything, besides, what's he even doing here? We don't know!"
There is huge difference between a friend and a homeless man as much as the difference between immigrants and illegal
Neither the government nor the people can afford the risk of having illegal immigrants in the country.
Have you seen the homeless people living under the bridges, burning trash to warm themselves during winter, turning sick due to dirty water and bad food? That is how illegal immigrants gonna end up if they fail to find job. As they're illegal immigrants, there is absolute so guarantee that they can find a stable job.
Poverty is the mother of crime.
.
Now instead of saying the country is cruel for having strict law on illegal immigrants, why don't we point the knife at the country that couldn't provide a better life for its people or at least give them hope that they can be better but no, it's so bad that the people cross dangerous rivers, roads, borders to go other country while breaking the law and can end up in jail.
The irony is that that same culture is responsible for SO much of the quality of life everyone currently enjoys.
“Why don’t they come here legally?” They do! In fact most illegal immigrants came here legally and over stayed their visa. Applying for asylum is actively being made harder to do by the trump organization. It’s not as easy as you think, and some of you need to learn empathy.
Any system being overwhelmed will operate below the standard. In cases of mass civil disobedience by citizens we can get their IDs and get to them when we get to them. In the case of illegals, we cannot track addresses or IDs with catch and release, and it has been consistently demonstrated that the vast majority don't care for court orders or hearings.
It is better to keep them all where we can see them then to tolerate any outsiders we do not know pose at most a negligible threat to the American people.
Correcting course will be painful enough without flooding the nation with millions of aliens who don't know or care what America is.
American lives
My life/my soldiers' lives
Allied personnel
Neutral peoples
Enemy civilians
Enemy combatants.
In World War 2, we deliberately bombed enemy noncombatants, terrorized civilian populations, and in some cases executed POWs and saboteurs even after neutralizing them. I have no illusions about what we've done. At the end of the day I will see that list burn from bottom to top before I allow any harm to befall those listed on top.
I will see snipers, mines, fire, and WMDs deployed along the border before I tolerate any potential risk from outside.
You can talk about international law, but all power comes from the barrel of a gun.
The vast majority of popular presidential candidates favor the alien over the citizen, and stripping the citizen of what's theirs.
Half the government is bending over backwards for anti-semitic, racist, irrational, overgrown children, and the international community presumes to hold us to their systems and agreements, our sovereignty be damned.
Does one or two still get in? Yes. I crush them and carry on with my day. Meanwhile, my neighbor found a pop tart box full of the fuckers.
People are campaigning on open borders. If I must choose between extremes, I'll lock everything out and kill whoever tries to slip through. Ideally, I'd take heavier patrols, expand points of entry, and a revamped legal process, with stiffer penalties on aliens.
The wall, or expanded border security in general, is a happy medium. But if major factions keep pushing extremes, I will back one over the other.
The systems and ideals that allowed this to be must be guarded jealously. The systems collapsing under their own weight will send everything into chaos, and there's no reason to believe what comes out the other side will be better, or even as good.
You're right about one thing though, it ain't a sudden gunshot. It's a severed vein, and we've been administering blood thinners instead of applying hemostatics.
Would be terrible to do something hasty that would hand a significant amount of authority to people who don't care about the long-term, or even what America is, so much as they care about how many corners they need to cut or crimes they need to commit just to improve their own station.
So they haven't directly hurt you. That's hardly even a cold comfort to those they have hurt. The ones who are protected by a rogue state, to the point where accused felons will be released without trial at the slightest hint of ICE showing up to get rid of a criminal who shouldn't be our problem in the first place.
So they haven't directly hurt you. That's hardly even a cold comfort to those they have hurt. The ones who are protected by a rogue state, to the point where accused felons will be released without trial at the slightest hint of ICE showing up to get rid of a criminal who shouldn't be our problem in the first place.
Snitches get stitches!
They got their due process and were denied for some reason or other, this is no more admirable than helping a thief, pusher, slaver, or murderer.
Aiding and abetting a runaway is a crime. And it's a crime which can mean you are helling a rebellious teen get away with drug abuse. But it's also a crime which can mean you are helping a scared teen that has an abusive homelife, but doesn't want to end up in the foster care system. I'm not saying it's a good thing to do, but it certainly opens the door to get area.