But the reason it's the lowest they are allowed to pay is because it was originally intended to be enough to live on. That was its entire reason for being implemented.
^ because it used to be you'd be working 18 hour shifts and barely being able to afford a small apartment shared with other families. So they made it so employers had to pay the minimum required for people to live off of so we wouldn't have 14+ people crammed into studio sized apartments.
Yes, but also most jobs that still do pay minimum wage, such as people working at McDonalds, should not be complaining, and saying that we need to bring it up to $15 an hour. why the fuck should they get paid more than, for the sake of the argument, I'll use a common one that I see, an ambulance driver, who earns between 11-16 dollars per hour. Now if we were to raise that then it would screw them over, creating a society in which people would be more likely to do the more menial tasks for more money, then to do important jobs, such as that to help others out.
@dozier524 You don't think if the Mcdonalds workers were suddenly paid $21/hr wages across the board wouldn't change accordingly? Are you trying to use a capitalist perspective and argue that capitalism won't correct it? That's strange. Face it, the only reason the economy wouldn't self correct is because the wealth at the top has hit the point where it's a fucking oligarchy. Trickle down economic policies will not force that wealth down, no matter how much they try to spin it. The market needs a forced correction if you are dead set against increasing taxes on millionaires. Jobs will be shuffled, but at least it will kind of correct itself efficiency-wise.
Seriously though, if $2+ billion a year for some billionaires who just buy back their own stock and inflate the price doesn't make you sick as hell, your economic philosophy need not apply. It's gotten to the point where it's literally market manipulation. 5% doesn't sound like much until you are trying to decide a split policy.
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· 6 years ago
If an ambulance driver doesn't earn more than a burger flipper, then he should have more and not the other one less. Shouldn't someone who isn't smart or otherwise capable enough to do a sophisticated job also be able to support a family and have a decent living from a fulltime job? If McD had to raise the wages for their employees, they would need to cut their obscene profits a bit, but that's it. The price of your burger is the maximum they can charge you anyway. it's not determined by a calculation of the costs but just and only by acceptance on the demanding side. Also the number of employees at McD can't be cut, as it's already at a minimum, they have made a science of that. So what would happen? Less money for shareholders, and these are the very people telling you that raising minimum wage would have catastrophic effects on the economy and even society.
It's totally on the point though. A luxury is something you don't need, and a basic luxury is nothing over the top. Not three weeks on the Fiji Islands, but maybe Disneyland here and then.
No, the people who have work their ass off in non minimum wage jobs to afford Disneyland, only to have some minimum wage mcdolans employee jump the queue (<---- NOT THE POINT, QUEUE IS A LITERARY DEVICE, NO WEALTH / HUMAN WORTH IMPLICATIONS FROM THIS SMALL PIECE OF IRRELEVANT INFORM, LITERALLY TWO OTHER POINTS TO DEBATE ABOUT)...
Love the extremes people use now, so much fun.
If you're not Anti Fa, you're a Nazi, and if you're not a Nazi, you're obviously Anti Fa.
If you're not neoliberal, youre a neosocial...
It's fucking ridiculous...
what does working at McDonalds have to do with jumping the queue at Disneyland? What the fuck? A silver spooned asshat can jump the queue just as easily. Nothing about the queue is based off income level. Sure there are express lines you can pay more for as well as handicapped lines, but arguing that someone who paid the same amount for their ticket as you should be behind you based off income instead of who got there first is fucking stupid.
You should also get butthurt about celebrities renting out the entire fucking park for a day.
It was a representation. The line was nothing more than device to get a point across, a point which you clearly missed while shaking at the screen when I said someone might jump the line...
The point was, a basic wage should be enough to live off, not earn luxuries off, that's why you get higher paid jobs, multiple jobs or qualifications. Why should a McDonald employ be able to go to Disneyland after working the same amount of time at a minimum wage job, when some emergency crews and manual labourers don't get the same benefit. If they've got money saved up, or it's a gift, by all means, go Disneyland, but you can't expect a minimum £7.50 an hour job to be able to pay for Heat, food, shelter, and a mobile device (phone / laptop) and them luxuries like Sky Super + Broadband or a gold pass at didney worl
The line jumping doesn't matter..
maybe the guy at McDonald's managed his fucking money and saved up for that trip to Disneyland.
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· 6 years ago
With minimum wage? Right... btw: of course not only McD employees need to have a minimum wage, everybody. I don't think Damon Rizzgruzz ev er earned a dollar in his life.
No, I worked at Tesco for 2 years of my life on minimum wage before heading to uni.
Surprisingly, out of millions of jobs, I am aware that more than 1 pays minimum wage...
I spent the two years working living with my parents, gave them so of it, and am now at uni, on a minimum maintenance loan, so a lot of my money is going to living costs. I couldn't and still can't afford a trip to Disneyland, but I can pay for my rent, my food, my phone, gas, electric and water, and that is how it should be...
It is impossible to have reasonable debate online, tbh, dunno why I bothered.
No one cares about the points, it's just jumping to conclusions and personal digs until the rational person (me) gives up.
So fuck you people.
Y'all motherfuckers heard of inflation? You jack up minimum wage suddenly everything gets stupid expensive. You think companies are just gonna be fine with their profits being halved? No they won't be, they will expect the same profits or even more and their excuse will be "But you guys are getting paid more, you can afford it"
Everything has been inflating. Things that cost 50¢ in the 60s costs $10 now. The inflated price in other markets has been SCARY. the point of this post was that the inflation in paying isn't consistent with cost of living increases. And while inflation is a thing that naturally happens, you can't expect people to be fine with making less and being charged more. They can't afford minimum living, which is why its a minimum wage. To be able to pay for the BARE MINIMUM necessities.
Yes the way things work is that the inflation of money goes up about 3% a year. Minimum wage does not keep up with this 3% (It's more of a 1% growth). If you were to have a minimum wage of $21 you are looking at inflation of the dollar of roughly 3 times higher than it is now. So you raise the minimum wage and end right back up where you were
There are no maximum controls to commodities or real estate, only minimum control for wages. In a free market this could work- so long as their is competition to drive innovation and keep prices indexed to what people value goods at. "Too big to fail" private companies being treated as if they were a government social service where convenient and private entity where profitable, regulations specifically aimed to minimize or eliminate competition by making it unrealistic for average people to be successful in new business, and conglomerates that side step monopoly laws and allow price fixing to remove competition or set market value: these are some of the things which contribute to this problem. Self employment and small business were once safe bets for a lifetime of at least modest living, now they are risky ventures that are more likely to fold than see you to retirement.
If he had c/p it, you would easily find it. Some people just realized that the sort of capitalism ruling today has as much to do with the classic idea of capitalism as the soviet union, china and cuba had to do with the idea of socialism.
the government stole the difference from you in 1964 when they untied our currency from the value of silver. If we still had silver or gold backed money then it would still be the equivalent.
When I was in the military, I got a housing allowance. Every year there would be a cost of living review and sometimes the housing allowance would go up. Guess what, rent also went up. If everyone knows the "money in" part of the equation, costs will adjust accordingly (cue argument on supply and demand).
Just remember that raising the minimum wage not only raises how much a worker makes, but also how much a product costs to make, because EVERY product has a minimum wage worker somewhere in the supply chain.
I'm not saying don't pay anyone a decent wage (don't we all need a raise?), just that it is a lot more complicated than we would love for it to be.
The problem is, the vast majority of products can be made or provided at the same cost even with minimum wage increases. But do you really expect the owners/board to use the billions they are compensated to actually do that? I don't. Greed won.
Also... the welfare caused by the cost of living keeping up with the minimum wage is more corporate welfare than it is personal welfare. That has too stop.
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Edited 6 years ago
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· 6 years ago
The biggest misunderstanding of real existing capitalism is that the consumer price is calculated by production costs plus a "decent" profit for everyone involved. It's trying to lower the costs by all (!) means and trying to obtain the highest price the consumer base will accept.
Seriously though, if $2+ billion a year for some billionaires who just buy back their own stock and inflate the price doesn't make you sick as hell, your economic philosophy need not apply. It's gotten to the point where it's literally market manipulation. 5% doesn't sound like much until you are trying to decide a split policy.
Love the extremes people use now, so much fun.
If you're not Anti Fa, you're a Nazi, and if you're not a Nazi, you're obviously Anti Fa.
If you're not neoliberal, youre a neosocial...
It's fucking ridiculous...
You should also get butthurt about celebrities renting out the entire fucking park for a day.
The point was, a basic wage should be enough to live off, not earn luxuries off, that's why you get higher paid jobs, multiple jobs or qualifications. Why should a McDonald employ be able to go to Disneyland after working the same amount of time at a minimum wage job, when some emergency crews and manual labourers don't get the same benefit. If they've got money saved up, or it's a gift, by all means, go Disneyland, but you can't expect a minimum £7.50 an hour job to be able to pay for Heat, food, shelter, and a mobile device (phone / laptop) and them luxuries like Sky Super + Broadband or a gold pass at didney worl
The line jumping doesn't matter..
Surprisingly, out of millions of jobs, I am aware that more than 1 pays minimum wage...
I spent the two years working living with my parents, gave them so of it, and am now at uni, on a minimum maintenance loan, so a lot of my money is going to living costs. I couldn't and still can't afford a trip to Disneyland, but I can pay for my rent, my food, my phone, gas, electric and water, and that is how it should be...
It is impossible to have reasonable debate online, tbh, dunno why I bothered.
No one cares about the points, it's just jumping to conclusions and personal digs until the rational person (me) gives up.
So fuck you people.
Just remember that raising the minimum wage not only raises how much a worker makes, but also how much a product costs to make, because EVERY product has a minimum wage worker somewhere in the supply chain.
I'm not saying don't pay anyone a decent wage (don't we all need a raise?), just that it is a lot more complicated than we would love for it to be.
Also... the welfare caused by the cost of living keeping up with the minimum wage is more corporate welfare than it is personal welfare. That has too stop.