To get this out of the way: I don’t advocate denial of care to people based on their personal choices. While I think it’s silly to distinguish between a virus vs. other issues like preventable heart disease (impacting over 24 million Americans alone and resulting in around 90,000 preventable deaths a year..) bacterial infections, cancers, injuries from choices like sports etc… I see that it doesn’t fit the agenda of this meme to discuss anything but viral infection, so let us stick to viruses and avoid other potentially hot topics of health care denial- although it bears mentioning that the conservative agenda often involves denial of reproductive health care to people- but we are distinguishing between viruses and other types of undesirable cellular growth within the human body- so we can skip that today. So then- let’s dive in.
IF we were going to take the leap and speculate on denying health care to those with viruses who didn’t take preventative steps- the first question would probably be wether or not we as a society mitigated that risk.
Did we make the information available in a complete, timely, and easily understood method? Did we make sure those at risk had access to the services and materials to help prevent transmission? Did we look at socioeconomic and other factors which contributed to risks and provide adequate support to those in at risk situations to help mitigate those factors?
If we are going to compare HIV to Covid- let’s skip the pretense- that’s what we are doing here- we have to remember that HIV was considered a “gay disease” and the government itself took a stance that it wasn’t interested in doing anything to stop gays from dying. As HIV spread to hetero homes we started to do research and as gays gained more acceptance as human beings attitudes started to change, but for a long while even many in the medical community had little or no interest in seriously attempting to treat pr even understand HIV. Contrasted to covid which received such swift and sweeping response that it was often jumbled and confused as governments rushed to act. As governments put multi billions behind finding a panacea within a year and releasing it without authorization, life saving drugs for HIV were withheld for decades or more because of red tape.
Information on HIV was slow coming as well, and many caught the virus before the public knew it existed or had a name.
For covid you couldnt turn around for 2 years without hearing about it the moment the first cases started on the other side of the globe. Governments made massive stimulus payments, spurred and aided the development of clinics, issued quarantines and testing protocols. Made testing and protective equipment available and even made it simple enough to get them via mail without leaving your house, free of cost to anyone wanting protection or testing.
Contrasting that response those with HIV historically have faced lack of access to facilities. Public push back when places that served the at risk communities and offered reproductive health and education or “safe spaces” to engage in activities linked to HIV transmission were performed. Needle exchanges and planned parenthoods and other facilities and even private providers trying to serve the communities most impacted or the general public historically have seen public opposition, no public funding or funding cuts, zoning restrictions to “push them out,” threats of or actual violence for providing care etc.
While it is well documented that HIV tends to be more prevalent in LGBTQ+ patients, it is also well documented historically that members of those groups also tend to face socioeconomic factors which place them at higher risk for many issues. Employment discrimination is one well documented factor along with being displaced from one’s home and community due to prejudice which have historically correlated to increased statistics for sex work like sexual pay for money or reliance on sexual favors and partnerships for survival which has contributed to the risk factors among those individuals. Increased risks for sexual violence against members of those communities is another. When coupled with a legal system that has been traditionally biased, disinterested, or even punitive against LGBTQ victims and the historical risks associated with “outing” oneself through seeking legal help- we get another factor.
Now all of this ignores the big giant elephant in the room- that HIV is primarily sexually transmitted. We treat things concerning sex oddly in society and mostly always have in large societies. Sex has some sort of both mystic pedestal and terrifying taboo. It’s why a kid can watch a film where a guys brains are torn apart but not where someone gets fingered. It’s why we show a man’s nipples on TV but even a plastic fake female breast has to be censored out on a costume show lest the femininity of that plastic nipple corrupt us.
A sexual component to a crime can transform the crime and sentence. It’s illegal to sell sex between consenting adults- one of the only such limits of the kind or on selling contact between people.
An action movie can have buckets of blood but a tampon commercial can’t. And so on. Thusly we can’t really approach what is primarily and STD the same as what is primarily an airborne disease anyway from a social context or legal context.
Tl:Dr and in conclusion- the prevalence of HIV disproportionately in LGBTQ communities is a complex web of history, attitudes and prejudices, and socioeconomic factors. When gays started dying from AIDS many people and the government at large didn’t really see that as a problem because of the attitude towards those groups.
If we want to compare AIDS to covid I’d love to hear someone describe to me the complex socio economic factors surrounding why a HEALTHY person can’t wear a mask. I’ve briefly (yes- for this issue that was brief) outlined some factors of HIV in America above, so if someone can offer a comparative analysis of mask wearing I’d be interested.
Also- for the second time and to be clear- I am not advocating refusing treatment for covid to people who don’t wear masks. Most health issues common in society are the results of preventable causes that people didn’t prevent in one way or another. We even treat the health of death row criminals.
I might be misremembering but wasn't the main issue during the AIDS crisis the lack of information about the disease as well as the poor quality of sex education that didn't teach people about protection and only ever preached abstinence? The latter is still a thing in many states so it seems the root of the issue wasn't entirely resolved.
Those were two major factors- it was a mystery disease and then it became known basically as a “gay disease.” Many assumed that if you were diagnosed with AIDS you had gay sex. There was a lot of shame around the disease and because there was so much ignorance and misinformation about how it was spread, many people including health care workers treated the infected or LGBTQ in general as plague carriers and would t even touch them. There were (much later) while campaigns about how you can’t get HIV from touch- but into the 90’s many protocols for first aid said to avoid mouth to mouth contact (there are devices to facilitate such) when giving CPR because of HIV risk. The shame and stigma kept many from coming forward or seeking treatment, getting tested, or informing partners.
This coupled with the fact that for a long time AIDS was seen as a death sentence and care was very limited and often horrible and humiliating- led a lot of people to just give up or avoid testing all together as they didn’t want to know.
Even heterosexuals were included as that perception that having HIV made you gay meant that even seeking treatment or testing could have you labeled as homosexual. For context at this time not only was homosexuality illegal many places and widely discriminated against, but even big cities like new York often enforced such laws and violence against LGBTQ was more common and often not punished. Even the police forces often engaged in violence and other punitive acts against gays. It was a very bad time to be labeled gay in America in general basically everywhere- even “liberal” cities.
The government and healthcare in general weren’t very concerned with the issue and there wasn’t a great deal of public support since the perception was that gays and needle junkies were at risk. Those were(are?) two segments of society that suburban America not only generally didn’t see as their peers, but we’re largely viewed as problems. Much as crime spiraled in predominantly POC neighborhoods and police, public, and government took a wider stance of “good- let them kill each other…” so too was the initial wide response to aids. Once bodies stacked up and like crime-
HIV started to spill in to “mainstream” America- it started to become a bigger issue and a political tool to gain “liberal votes.” The initial lack of information spurred fears and spread misinformation but prejudices and systemic factors were two of the largest issues.
i came back from the dead just to say fuck you. "do some research" did you do any fucking research about the AIDS epidemic in USA and it's subsequent effects, bigot. "i have no shame" Aren't you preparing to be a fucking teacher? is this what you will teach the kids? Being a fucking homophobe and a bigot?
get bent.
Lol it’s just a meme. Just because I find something funny, doesn’t mean I’m a bigot. Libtards throw that word out way too much. Looks like you also need to do your research, but this time it’s for basic words.
i don't have a problem with the meme dipshit. The meme in itself while offensive, is still okay. I have a problem with you, and yes you are a bigot, it's clear in the way you talk about gay people. The way you imply that the AIDS epidemic is some sort of agenda rather than a systemic boycott of a group of people who were left on their own to die. And nothing was done about it until the straights were being affected. I am glad to know that a dark chapter in the American history is a matter for you to call people snowflake about, when they are pointing out your homophobia. I am not guest and i am not going to write diplomatic fucking paragraphs for you. And even if I did you still wouldn't give a fuck because you are a bigot. You need to do your own reasearch on some basic human decency and how not to be a homophobe.
I didn’t even say anything homophobic. All of my comments on this post have been about the meme (which you said “is still okay”). Not once have I said anything homophobic or bigoted. I told two people to do their research (which again, you clearly didn’t) and I told another that I have no shame in posting a meme. I think you need to take a breather. You’re really worked up over nothing.
Did we make the information available in a complete, timely, and easily understood method? Did we make sure those at risk had access to the services and materials to help prevent transmission? Did we look at socioeconomic and other factors which contributed to risks and provide adequate support to those in at risk situations to help mitigate those factors?
For covid you couldnt turn around for 2 years without hearing about it the moment the first cases started on the other side of the globe. Governments made massive stimulus payments, spurred and aided the development of clinics, issued quarantines and testing protocols. Made testing and protective equipment available and even made it simple enough to get them via mail without leaving your house, free of cost to anyone wanting protection or testing.
A sexual component to a crime can transform the crime and sentence. It’s illegal to sell sex between consenting adults- one of the only such limits of the kind or on selling contact between people.
An action movie can have buckets of blood but a tampon commercial can’t. And so on. Thusly we can’t really approach what is primarily and STD the same as what is primarily an airborne disease anyway from a social context or legal context.
If we want to compare AIDS to covid I’d love to hear someone describe to me the complex socio economic factors surrounding why a HEALTHY person can’t wear a mask. I’ve briefly (yes- for this issue that was brief) outlined some factors of HIV in America above, so if someone can offer a comparative analysis of mask wearing I’d be interested.
Also- for the second time and to be clear- I am not advocating refusing treatment for covid to people who don’t wear masks. Most health issues common in society are the results of preventable causes that people didn’t prevent in one way or another. We even treat the health of death row criminals.
Even heterosexuals were included as that perception that having HIV made you gay meant that even seeking treatment or testing could have you labeled as homosexual. For context at this time not only was homosexuality illegal many places and widely discriminated against, but even big cities like new York often enforced such laws and violence against LGBTQ was more common and often not punished. Even the police forces often engaged in violence and other punitive acts against gays. It was a very bad time to be labeled gay in America in general basically everywhere- even “liberal” cities.
HIV started to spill in to “mainstream” America- it started to become a bigger issue and a political tool to gain “liberal votes.” The initial lack of information spurred fears and spread misinformation but prejudices and systemic factors were two of the largest issues.
get bent.