I took a political alignment test and it put me under left libertarian. I don't think that diversity should be shoehorned into *everything*, but it should have a place. That said, i know very little about politics.
Also, cats is fucking terrifying and fur colour isn't the same as skin colour. Obviously the actress is fine with it, so there shouldn't be a problem.
I came out as centrist on the compass, but I would honestly would put myself in the center-right quadrant, given how I seem to corellate with other people.
The character Francesca Hayward plays is literally called "Victoria the White Cat" or just "White Cat". She was chosen because that character does intensive ballet routines and Francesca is a fantastic professional ballerina. It has nothing to do with the colour of her skin.
The theory behind pressuring diversity is the same as the one for affirmative action. It’s not irrational wackiness. The idea can kind of be thought of like orthodonture. You teeth are uneven so they push and shove the teeth to where they need to be and it becomes the new normal. It may seem harsh at the beginning but the idea is to do it actively only until it’s self-sustaining.
So... minorities need a hand because we aren't as good as white people?
Fuck you. I never asked for a hand, and I sure as hell don't need it. Find somebody else to be the white man's burden, cause I ain't the one.
We all deserve equal opportunity. That is not currently the norm. We can complain or we can do something about it. You cannot address it one person at a time effectively. This is a strategy to handle it in the aggregate.
The soft bigotry of low expectations. Again.
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This is why it's completely hilarious when you hear the left trying to claim that their opponents are white supremacists. If they don't believe that people of all races can succeed on a level playing field, they are the ones who think white people are better due to their race.
So in your opinion to have equal opportunity some people need to get privileged treatment based on their race.
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Congratulations, you are a white supremacist.
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And I couldn't give less of a shit about the aggregate. The outcome is not important. The PROCESS by which the outcome is determined is paramount. If the process if fair, the outcome is also fair.
The belief isn’t that they can’t succeed on their own it’s that the playing field isn’t level and will not become level without outside influence. In a continuation of the metaphor in order to level a field you have to forcefully move some amount of it from where it was resting to where you want it to be. Once it’s there then the level is reasonable self-sustaining.
When business was being transacted in all white clubs there was a move made to make it illegal to restrict membership based on race. Having them cross it out in the rulebook would not actually accomplish anything. They had to actively accept minority members to prove it. I doubt the white members thought this process was fair but it was done to prevent an unfair advantage to a single race. That doesn’t seem like too bad of an outcome to me.
Everything I've got is mine. I studied harder than everyone else. I trained harder. It is my time in the library. It is my sweat on the pavement. It is my blood in the sand. I earned my titles, I earned my rank, and I met the same standards as everybody else from the exact same starting point.
You weren't there at the start, you won't be there at the end, and you aren't anywhere to be seen from where I am now. Don't offer me a hand up, I got this far without you. Either stand beside me, or step aside, because you aren't above me. I am above. I am above the victim mentality, I am above the quitter's excuses, and I am above you. You who insults everything I am by presuming that I need your help.
That’s admirable. Now do it without access to white schools or white businesses. And don’t forget to keep those eyes down around white women or you might end up hanging from a tree. Do you think all those things went away because the minorities worked their way into the respect of the established white power structure with true grit? Nope it was shoved down the whites throats because it was wrong and after a while it seemed odd that it was ever like that in the first place.
The only equality is that in the face if the law. So yes, removing those rules is enough.
And if you want a club of your own so badly, nobody is stopping you from creating one. The only unfair advantages that exist now are the privileged status of women and non-white people under the law.
You seem unfamiliar with the underlying idea of what exclusive privilege is. Those clubs contained businessmen who held a lot of power. They used them as a way to work exclusively with each other to maintain their group’s advantage over people outside of their group (whatever that was). Because, due to historical precedent, they were far ahead of everyone else the formation of a new club would not afford the same advantage to its members. You have to factor in where the advantage is if you are going to remediate it and that doesn’t come from the current generation it comes from the past ones.
Find me a single law that exists now which discriminates based on race. One single law that exists now.
If you can't, then the procedure is fair. So I don't care if the outcome is not what you like.
You think you're the reason I haven't been lynched? Fuck no. I haven't been lynched because nobody who would want to has the guts to step up, and any that did will be in for it, because I've been practicing violence in numerous forms for a hot minute now, and so have my friends.
Not by the grace of the white man, but because I chose to take control of my own life.
I will die free before I allow your racism to put me in a gilded cage, especially to the detriment of people who've never acted against me.
Yes, we are all familiar with your LMS @famousone but I doubt even a trained supersoldier like you could resist a drunken mob of men who feigned a slight because they knew they could kill you without repercussion.
@vitklim This isn’t a legal discussion. There’s no law saying Ariel had to be made black. Laws are safety rails on the side of the road. You can’t expect them to make people good drivers. Society isn’t a product of now. It’s a evolution of then. There aren’t lynch mobs anymore because they suddenly became illegal they are gone because someone steered the societal norm away from them. Laws are a great start but to improve our culture it has happen over time and when it doesn’t organically it needs a push.
Newsflash: they attacked random people who were vulnerable. You don’t carry those weapons all the time. And you are correct. It isn’t 1819. You don’t have to worry at all because someone in the past helped force positive change in society.
@famousone Question on what you said earlier. Did you become a solider just to show up the bullies and gain a group of people who feel obligated to protect you? I thought soldiers were supposed to be the strong that defended those who can’t defend themselves. That’s why we consider them heroes. The idea that “I’m strong enough to make it so fuck everyone else who can’t” seems to run contrary to that ethos.
No, and they also don’t lack inherent value. You managed to overcome a disadvantaged situation. Do you believe all non-whites should be held to your standard and have to outwork the privileged or that they should be given a fair starting position in the rat race?
Better question. Do you think you could have accomplished what you have without a lot more effort or at all in 1890? If not, then what do you think caused the change between then and now?
Then your “I became the man I am all by myself” stuff isn’t relevant. You may not have been able to if you had grown up in the projects of Chicago or the barrio in Los Angeles. Those people don’t deserve the same chance you got?
They can join the same Army I did. Half my battle buddies are from the projects.
And it is relevant, because in this day and age everyone can pull themselves up.
Let me give you an opposite example. I was born middle class. I had access to good healthcare and nutrition as a child. When I was ten my grandfather bought me a computer, which was very expensive at the time. I spent a lot of time on it and became proficient. (This was back before everything was point and click so you actually had to learn the basics). When I graduated from my predominantly affluent high school I went to community college but was recruited into the business world before I could even finish because what I learned as a child was still a rare skill.
22 years later, after a tremendous amount of work and effort I retired at 40. I have been, by most people’s definition, successful. I did so without any financial help from my parents or any social programs like the military. Now, if I wasn’t born as a middle class white male could I have accomplished what I did at the time that I did it? No. I could not have. I can tell you that with certainty because I was there the whole time.
If I hadn’t been kept healthy as an infant perhaps my brain wouldn’t have developed as well as it did. Without proper nutrition I could have had long term health problems. If my grandfather wasn’t wealthy I wouldn’t have ever gotten that computer. Statistically, which is the scope in which we have to look at it, I was much more likely to have those things than other ethnic groups. Now I have no idea how much of my corporate success had to do with my race and gender but I’m absolutely certain it wasn’t zero.
Looking back was only when I realized that it was my base years that allowed me to succeed. While I was doing it I thought I was King Shit of Fuck Mountain and just naturally smarter and better than my peers. And to some degree I was but it was due to the years in which I had no control. The generation before me did that. So it isn’t about creating diversity for this generation it’s about making diversity and equality the norm for the next generation.
Thing is, sometimes shit happens. Why did Sgt X survive the surge just to die in a car wreck right before retirement? Or a kid gets to BCT just to lose his leg to an infection. Or a man gets crushed between to two Strykers.
Shit happens.
@scatmandingo the military is a social program ? Like food stamps or something ? I might have missed your point or misinterpreted you idea. I think for over the last one hundred years or so, race has been used by the wealthy to keep the working class fighting each other and their eyes off of the pot of gold. There's always going to be some racists, the rich (modern rich) only respect green
No, we are precisely talking in the framework of law. Because it is the only thing that can be regulated. The moment you try to engineer society by forcing people through the force of government is the moment you become just another authoritarian monster.
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The procedure is the only thing that matters. Fuck the historical precedent and fuck the unequal representation. If a person right now can make it to the top through hard work, and many have, I don't care.
This is why statistics like "only X women as CEOs in the top companies" are fucking irrelevant. As long as there are some that made it, I don't give a fuck if that number is 7 or 50. As long as it is above 0.
@vitklim Two things: 1. At no point have I discussed requiring outcomes to be equal only outcomes being varied based on unequal opportunity as examples. 2. It’s not the government being authoritarian. The government isn’t involved here AT ALL. This is merely a small group of private citizens creating social pressure to move the standards closer to where they think they should be. Which I hope you believe is within their rights.
@popsy Yes. The military is a social program in addition to being a defense force. In fact it’s the largest one in history. It provides salary, food, housing, clothing, job skills, retirement, and education all funded by taxpayers and available to basically anyone who is willing to join. That’s pretty much the definition of one.
Okay, so we are more on the same page than I thought then. So the question becomes: can you prove that the inequality of opportunity is the fault of the law? If the answer is no, too bad, you can't do anything.
And I agree that what you described is acceptable. But it's not what is happening. What we have now is a cultural infestation of institutions. Universities, governments, tech companies, media, need I go on? In each one of them there is an authoritarian ideological branch that is imposing or trying to impose their worldview on people who they have no rightful power over. This particular case is only a byproduct. The very fact that it is happening is a signal that this ideolody has overtaken so much.
If your response is that it is no different, than answer me: Have we elected those who censor us from the biggest public platforms ever? Have we elected those who make news and movies? Have we elected those marxist professors that indoctrinate generations of weak, whiny, incapable people?
We have not. And I doubt that the question of affirmative action ever came up in campaign slogans.
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It is no longer about social pressure, it is about legal, cultural and social pressure of the highest possible order.
@vitklim I apologize but I don’t think I understand your question. Have we elected them? Of course not. I didn’t elect you but you seem brimming with the desire to make your opinions known without providing any hard facts. You are creating social pressure, albeit a lot less than an organization could, and that’s your right. Until it violates a law I support you voicing your comments just like I support them taking their actions. If the culture finds what they do unacceptable then it won’t accept the change.
Hey @scatmandingo it all good. I think there was a time that affirmative action was needed to open doors and break down barriers , I think that time past in the eighties, no going by statistic , just my personal observations. No one can take away from what was earned through effort and hard work that guys like @famousone put in. The doors had to be forced open , break up the boys club so to speak. Unfortunately, I think by the 1980s it became favoritism reversed. The laws on the books should only be for equality.
I have no power to create social change aside from advocating for it. I don't broadcast to millions of people, I don't create the rules for online platforms based on my own morality, I have no institutional power to enforce social change and so shouldn't anybody else. If people listen to your message, they will change their ways, not force others to fall in line too.
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But the side you are closest to, does have that power. Online censorship, affirmative action, fake news, are all corrupted by the same ideology, being enforced upon those who reject it.
This is what I mean when I talk about authoritarianism. My ideology is based on freedom, so I would never trample someone's rights to achieve the change I want. Their ideology is based on equity, so they will trample someone's rights if they have to.
I am against any type of affirmative action, or any laws with bias . The playing field was leveled and then tilted to favor minorities and women. The door had to be opened and it was . Now it has to be fair for everyone.
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Diversity of thought apparently doesn't matter
Also, cats is fucking terrifying and fur colour isn't the same as skin colour. Obviously the actress is fine with it, so there shouldn't be a problem.
Fuck you. I never asked for a hand, and I sure as hell don't need it. Find somebody else to be the white man's burden, cause I ain't the one.
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This is why it's completely hilarious when you hear the left trying to claim that their opponents are white supremacists. If they don't believe that people of all races can succeed on a level playing field, they are the ones who think white people are better due to their race.
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Congratulations, you are a white supremacist.
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And I couldn't give less of a shit about the aggregate. The outcome is not important. The PROCESS by which the outcome is determined is paramount. If the process if fair, the outcome is also fair.
You weren't there at the start, you won't be there at the end, and you aren't anywhere to be seen from where I am now. Don't offer me a hand up, I got this far without you. Either stand beside me, or step aside, because you aren't above me. I am above. I am above the victim mentality, I am above the quitter's excuses, and I am above you. You who insults everything I am by presuming that I need your help.
And if you want a club of your own so badly, nobody is stopping you from creating one. The only unfair advantages that exist now are the privileged status of women and non-white people under the law.
If you can't, then the procedure is fair. So I don't care if the outcome is not what you like.
Not by the grace of the white man, but because I chose to take control of my own life.
I will die free before I allow your racism to put me in a gilded cage, especially to the detriment of people who've never acted against me.
@vitklim This isn’t a legal discussion. There’s no law saying Ariel had to be made black. Laws are safety rails on the side of the road. You can’t expect them to make people good drivers. Society isn’t a product of now. It’s a evolution of then. There aren’t lynch mobs anymore because they suddenly became illegal they are gone because someone steered the societal norm away from them. Laws are a great start but to improve our culture it has happen over time and when it doesn’t organically it needs a push.
Or better yet, show me a mob can get past my M240B.
And it is relevant, because in this day and age everyone can pull themselves up.
Shit happens.
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The procedure is the only thing that matters. Fuck the historical precedent and fuck the unequal representation. If a person right now can make it to the top through hard work, and many have, I don't care.
This is why statistics like "only X women as CEOs in the top companies" are fucking irrelevant. As long as there are some that made it, I don't give a fuck if that number is 7 or 50. As long as it is above 0.
And I agree that what you described is acceptable. But it's not what is happening. What we have now is a cultural infestation of institutions. Universities, governments, tech companies, media, need I go on? In each one of them there is an authoritarian ideological branch that is imposing or trying to impose their worldview on people who they have no rightful power over. This particular case is only a byproduct. The very fact that it is happening is a signal that this ideolody has overtaken so much.
We have not. And I doubt that the question of affirmative action ever came up in campaign slogans.
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It is no longer about social pressure, it is about legal, cultural and social pressure of the highest possible order.
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But the side you are closest to, does have that power. Online censorship, affirmative action, fake news, are all corrupted by the same ideology, being enforced upon those who reject it.
This is what I mean when I talk about authoritarianism. My ideology is based on freedom, so I would never trample someone's rights to achieve the change I want. Their ideology is based on equity, so they will trample someone's rights if they have to.