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vitklim · 5 years ago
Okay, but what makes them bad writing in your opinion?
And in what particular respect? Because I would separate areas of writing into at least the characters, the plot and the worldbuilding. For me, the worldbuilding was the main focus of criticism, because the flaws in the plot and the characters in BP were far less significant.
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And I do agree that MCU movies are not fully self-contained, which is why I said "movies that came before it in the same universe and itself". Which means you have to rule out additional information that the comics provide, but you can definitely extrapolate from what the previous films in the series have given you.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
Nonsensical plot points, jarred and stilted conversations, poor pacing, illogical decisions made by characters, moving or changing character motivations for the sake of a joke (and usually not even a good joke)... etc.
vitklim · 5 years ago
So let me break it down then.
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Because of bad plot writing
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Because of bad dialogue and humour
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Because of shitty character writing
All fair points
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So what about internal consistency of the world then?
Any examples of that being a noticeable issue?
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
Yeah, all the Transformer movies lol
vitklim · 5 years ago
Yep. So what makes Black Panther any different? Most of the explanations you presented can either be only found in comics, do not hold up to the closest real world approximation, or require introducing incredible complex logic lines that were not present in the movie.
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You take the end result and try to reverse engineer an explanation that was not there in the first place.
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Why is Wakanda isolationist? Because that was in the comics and because it has to be for the plot. The fact that there is no way this culture could arise naturally is ignored for the sake of the plot.
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Why can Vibranium do so much? Because Wakanda needs to be incredibly advanced in every technological field. So you can use the Vibranium for everything without repercussions, even though the viewers' investment into the story will be ruined, because every problem is solved with Vibranium, or there is no explanation for why it wasn't.
vitklim · 5 years ago
Why do they farm rhinos, one of the most difficult animals to domesticate, which has not even been accomplished in the real world? Because they wanted a 3rd act showdown with rhinos, so ignore the science of it all.
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If I can see so many faults in the worldbuilding and why they were there, why the script had to fit the setpieces, sacrificing quality in the process, it is bad writing.
Because all of the problems were ignored with the assumption that nobody would stop to think about it all.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
Iron Man suits don't exist in the real world. Super-Soldier Serum's don't. Magic doesn't. Asgard doesn't. Domesticating Rhino's isn't a stretch, neither are the properties of vibranium. The reasons for Wakanda being isolationist are stated in the movie. They don't want the rest of the world to know they have vibranium. Look at what happened in Africa once gold, diamonds or oil were found.
vitklim · 5 years ago
Do I have to reiterate every single nuance in my statements? We don't have close real-world approximation for any of these things you listed. We do for rhinos. In fact, we know precisely why it would be nigh impossible to domesticate them.
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Again, what is the difference if the rest of the world knows they have the Vibranium? Yet again, applying to logic of today to the events of the past. If we want a close real-world approximation, take any civilization that had a technological advantage over the neighboring ones. They always used it. Every civilization in existence had imperialistic tendencies, and they were only stopped because they could not defeat their enemies, or they defeated everyone nearby. Now imagine that same scenario, but one civilization has incredibly superior technology. They would take over at least the entire continent.
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And again, look at real-world situations where isolationist culture develops. Wakanda had the exact opposite circumstances.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
Do I have to reiterate every single nuance in my statements as well? I already explained all that.
vitklim · 5 years ago
You explained it away by it either being in the comics or making massive assumptions based on the information the movie did not provide. We are given a bit of exposition at the very beginning, and are supposed to accept the end result without question, or without regard for the incredible improbability of the outcome given the conditions.
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That does not hold up. Because right now you are making shit up that was not in the movie to explain crucial reasons why the movie happens as it does, while no actual answers are given.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
So what are they supposed to do, sit around for an hour and give you exposition on how they domesticated rhinos?
vitklim · 5 years ago
Even a simple line just giving an inclination on how and why they did it would be enough.
This is what most movies do when they introduce a plot point that requires some explanation. It would still be unrealistic, but I would accept it. What happens instead is I'm left to think that the reason why they didn't bother is because they didn't care and only needed the rhinos for the third act battle.
And I see the same level of thought present in the rest of the movie. Just give the viewer the end outcome, cause no one will question it anyway.
interesting · 5 years ago
Personally, I'm a bigger fan of Lord of the Rings so... yeah.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
There kind of is a... scene. When T'Challa meets with the W'Kabi. You can see how the rhino pens are set up.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
It's just in the background, but it's there.
vitklim · 5 years ago
I know they are there, it is not an explanation.
Again, the movie presents us with an end result, and expects us to take it at face value. This only works to a certain extent. There is no allusion to how they were domesticated, there is no explicit reason for them to be domesticated, since Wakanda does not war with anyone, vibranium makes rhinos irrelevant, and there is nothing to be harvested from them.
Which means the only explanation as to why they are there in the first place, is because the movie needed them to be. And that's the goddamn problem.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
In the LOTR movies there's no reason given why Sauron needs to hire mercenaries, or Oliphaunt riders, but BOOM they just fucking show up.
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
Oh, spoiler alert, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, even with all that pseudo-science, could never actually exist and the actual explanation is hilariously stupid to anyone familiar with the decay of genetic material. Did you also get just as butthurt when the rhino showed up in 300? Guess what? That was based on a real event, and I can absolutely, unequivocally state that there was never a fat dude with choppy arms....
funkmasterrex · 5 years ago
I just find it so strange that you find something so inconsequential to ruin a movie for you.