Dependency vs Self-sufficiency.
I'm alright with some people choosing dependency, hard work isn't for everyone. My only problem is that it comes at the forced cost of someone else's labors.
Well I'm afraid I might twist my tongue trying to explain, but it's just not hard to see. We humans often need another human to survive, while animals don't (even the ones that live in groups)
There's so much involved. The fact that we have all kinds of different relationships, we think, we have other ways of giving a solution to our needs.
I don't particularly agree with everything you've said, but I don't know how to convey what I myself believe in, so thank you for your insight.
Believe me, this will have me thinking for some time.
I agree completely taeminnieah. Humans are by nature social animals. A better comparison would be a homeless person and a wounded bird. Wounded birds are taken in, given shelter from predators, fed, and nursed until they are strong enough to fly again. Then, they are set free, back into the wild. Sure, a few poor people may refuse to work, but it was your effort to help them that made you a good person. Whatever they do is between them and their deity/conscience.
Abigailhobbs: I think what you have described is true. The problem is that the only possible way in which that can be sustained is if only truly "wounded bird" people are taken in and those that can heal are releasesed in a reasonable time. If we create a system that takes in as many birds as possible for the purpose of having the newly dependent birds vote for the leaders who want to create even more birds dependents...... we end up with a wagon full of riding dependant birds in it and not enough self reliant birds to pull it.
There will always be those who scam the system, but the good that is done to help those who need it is worth it. It's wrong to assume everyone who's poor is lazy, as well as offensive.
Edit: read summer's comment
I agree. As a compassionate people we have to have a system to help those who cannot help themselves. But we camnot possibly run a country by making emotional decisions based off a few examples. The phrase 'greater good for the greater #' comes to mind. If we continue to raise taxes so that we can pay to help everyone who wants it (not needs it) we will eventually have a country/economy that has nothing to offer people who want to take risks and start businesses. People who have business will close the doors because its not worth having the bulk of their assets ties up in a risky enviroment and only being able to keep half of what they make. When these businesses close, the jobs that they have created will close too. That senario is a ways off but its very real. Now we would have to raise taxes on the people who are left in order to support the newly unemployed people we have just created.
If this is how its going to end up, was it still a better decision to pay more taxes and continue to support people who are capable of supporting themselves? I agree this post's message is greatly oversimplified but there is a fundimental truth to it. People NEED motivation and drive to do great things, if you take that drive away, dont expect an increase in innovation and production.
You know, you won't even have to pay taxes if you cut funding for useless projects like the F-35. Although the money saved will probably be earmarked for our crumbling infrastructure during the next 5-10 years. Still, we need to start reprioritizing what we're doing with our tax revenue.
The United State's military spending represents 44% of the total military spending, *world wide*. That means we spend almost as much as the rest of the world COMBINED. I'm sure just by cutting one or two projects (we spent 24 million alone on this one helicopter) the entire welfare program would be funded, and we wouldn't have to raise any taxes. Your arguments, princess, are based on no facts other than possibly ones twisted by Fox "News." I have solid numbers based of not studies or polls, but numbers.
I pride myself on learning from all varieties and resources. You seem to have your mind made up that Fox is agenda driven, and I would agree 100%. But if you think msnbc, cnn, abc,cbs etc. Is any less agenda driven you are as nieve as a faithfull Foxviewer. I think its safe to assume that almost any/all statistics or polls are leaning one way or another. If you think that there isnt an equal (and massive) amount of corruption on both sides of the aisle i would invite you to spend some time and think it through. So thinking and reasoning with logic and theory would arguably lead to the purest outlook on our country's situation. The fact a person is much more likely to find a way to survive and thrive in enviroment where they have no other choice vs an enviroment where they are given basic needs isnt a matter of politics, its human nature. Being more or less compassionate doesnt change human nature.
Yes, yes. The other side isn't perfect, either, but I doubt you'd want to pit Fox's track record with fact-checking and the like against the other news outlets.
It's actually kinda sad how some of their people seem to be just fine with swallowing their pride as journalists and becoming essentially a paid mouthpiece for some rich asshole with more money than any one citizen should rightly have.
Not everyone who gets food stamps can be independent, my mother is considered disabled because she had an aneurysm when she was 18 her short term memory is shot. She can't work because it puts to much stress on her which could lead to her having another aneurysm. So she gets assistance from the state. Then there is the people who actually do work hard that just need some extra assistance every month. My father worked extremely hard, every day any chance he could work overtime he would take it to put food on the table and clothe us but we still needed the extra help. Food stamps aren't just for lazy people, its also for people who try their hardest but still can't make ends meet. But people often forget there's a lot of people struggling. Things like this insult me on such a personal level because I was always the kid who's family struggled and went to food banks and got assistance from the state and watched my parents try to give my sisters and I the best life possible still.
Dont apologize! Youve got nothing to apologize for man.
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· 10 years ago
Truther, I'm getting very tired of your shit-stirring, fallacy-ridden posts. Implying that impoverished people are like animals is incredibly ignorant. Try educating yourself from a source that isn't a conspiracy theorist forum.
^LOL I'd love to see that post. It might be the only thing we agree upon. :D
But yeah, it was obvious that this "truth"er asshole was a far-right republican internet activist stooge from day 1. Nothing to see here. Just another mindless mouthpiece for Mr. Murdoch.
Obviously most of the above reactions are from firmly liberal people... dont liberal people pride themselves on their open mindedness? Doesnt slamming on a comment without legitimately entertaining its context put you in a cloud of hypocrisy?
Wait, who are the liberals, now? I'm actually an independant. Not to mention, many republicans have thoughts of their own that aren't just regurgitations of Fox News anchors. In fact, that is part of the reason why there have been many leaving the party the past few years.
And cut the openmindedness argument. Being openminded doesn't mean you can't have a position on something once the facts roll in. Not to mention you can also "slam" people, especially those supposedly "serving the public" for their bullshit.
I know this has been said, but I'd like to repeat it again, not everyone on food stamps is not working or not trying to support themselves. However, many people are born or raised into times they try to get out of, and this assists them.
If we don't give to the poor, there will be an even bigger imbalance between the classes. More people will be homeless and starving and consuming drugs and dying.
Whoever posted this: pull your head out of your butt, please. 46 million people, by your count, receive food stamps. How many of them are families with children, do you think? Do you honestly believe that people are totally fine with the fact that they can't make enough money to simply purchase food? Do you understand how hard it is to make a liveable wage in America? Nobody's 'choosing dependency'. It's a really juvenile comparison. Animals in the national park system have no potential for becoming productive members of society. People do. Also they are HUMAN BEINGS. Grow up.
Not the same. Come talk to me when human civilization cities become rent-free open environments where people can go out and farm, gather and hunt whenever they need.
Now excuse me while we go bail out a guy in Oregon who was arrested for collecting rain water on his own land.
I get what you are saying, but it is more complicated than that. We should however have very strict and enforced rules on who, how much, and for how long people get help and we should have permanent help for those who literally cannot help themselves. I'll agree we have way way over abused the system though.
Speaking of abuse (not to mention corruption), if we're going to overhaul the system, don't forget all the subsidies and bailouts we give to our corporate criminal buddies, eh?
Living in an impoverished area, most of the 47 million is people who are abusing the system. I have no problem if you have a medical (mental or physical) problem and need assistance, you have the right to receive help. The problem is I have met people who their life plan is to abuse the system and see nothing wrong with it. Need extra cash, have a kid. That's these girl's life goal; and the assistance they get doesn't go towards their children's needs or even their own self needs like food, shelter or medicine, instead it goes towards drugs, manicures, and iPhones (as an example). That is my current generation of young adults who are in their mid twenties.
Truther, OMG plzzzz shut the front door, and shut ur mouth...sthap! Just stop it already. U overly simplify everything and u understand none of it...Obviously. I'll b happy any day to spend a little more on taxes if it keeps even one kid from going hungry. Ur an ass.
Skittles, you say you would be happy to spend "a little" more on taxes. That is a relative amount of money. What if you were paying 50% of your income to taxes now....or 75%? Then would you still be willing? Thats the direction we are headed if we continually agree to pay "just a little more". Why wouldnt we make sure we use the huge amount of tax dollars we already have in a better way vs just taxing more simply because its easier?
Yeah while we're at it why are we complaining about helping poor people and feeding the hungry providing shelter for the poor funding help for the elderly like my dad a Vietnam vet that worked his whole life and would now be homeless without food stamps and help with housing but lets use our tax dollars where there really needed cuz I love paying some politician hundreds of thousands of dollars a year what was I thinking
Yeah skittles, really. How could you possibly be so SELFISH wanting to eat food and have shelter, when some poor politican is only making $300,000 a year. How dare you.
But that's not even the WORST part! I'm the average taxpayer, and I make 50,000 a year. Not a lot, but I'm certainly not lower class. Guess how much I have to pay towards the welfare program each year? $36! (I'm serious, this is an actual stat lol people are so stupid)
That's way lower than I thought. Im just sick of people who complain but don't want to actually do something that will make a difference and yes there's plenty of people who take advantage but it's pennies compared to what we would save from the politicians we pay them and they don't even do a good job this is a rich country no child or elderly person or veteran so be below the poverty line but attitudes towards it has to change we need to be loving each other and pulling everyone up not thinking we're better
You're right. You here these people "Christian values this" and "Christian values that" but if you really are Christian you believe in the Christian value of not judging others and letting god do that. You give what you can to those who are in need, and you hope that what they do with it is helping them and their family instead of cheating you, but at the end of the day, even if you get cheated, it was your actions that made you a good person. God can deal with the people who cheat. I'm not Christian but this is what I've taken away from what I know about it.
Anymore? This is just human nature, which hasn't changed since day 1. Some are just better at hiding it than others.
Btw, I'm a Christian, and it often feels like republicans only give lip service to Christianity for the easy votes. Doesn't matter that they have no clue what they're doing when in office, since many of them are only puppets for their donors, anyway.
You're absolutely right it is just what humans have always done and when you've worked hard for your money you deserve to keep as much as possible for yourself but for humanities sake we all need to focus on those less fortunate and draw the line with these politicians taking from everyone and stop battling with each other
I know this may not matter, since as a guest, there is no way to edit your comments, but you may want to double check to make sure that's not a mirror. No worries, it's pretty common for baboons to make that mistake.
Firstly, not everybody comes from privellige and get the petty things rich people take for granted. Secondly, an enviroment in which a child grows up in determines who they are; society shapes us. I think it is ignorant of people to think that everyone on welfare wants to be on welfare. Clearly the issues that need to be addressed in America and other comparable democracies is the culture of stereotyping people on welfare and undermining them as animals. Another issue that clearly needs addressing is the fundamental reason why so many people are on welfare, why your country gives more money to rich white politicans than poor men women and children. Why your government isn't doing more by building institutions that assist underprivileged people in getting out of these situations. Americans can talk a lot about equal opportunity but it doesn't exist. The generational unemployed and illiterate are so because they haven't been given ample education nor oppurtunities.
I'm alright with some people choosing dependency, hard work isn't for everyone. My only problem is that it comes at the forced cost of someone else's labors.
There's so much involved. The fact that we have all kinds of different relationships, we think, we have other ways of giving a solution to our needs.
Believe me, this will have me thinking for some time.
Edit: read summer's comment
It's actually kinda sad how some of their people seem to be just fine with swallowing their pride as journalists and becoming essentially a paid mouthpiece for some rich asshole with more money than any one citizen should rightly have.
But yeah, it was obvious that this "truth"er asshole was a far-right republican internet activist stooge from day 1. Nothing to see here. Just another mindless mouthpiece for Mr. Murdoch.
And cut the openmindedness argument. Being openminded doesn't mean you can't have a position on something once the facts roll in. Not to mention you can also "slam" people, especially those supposedly "serving the public" for their bullshit.
Now excuse me while we go bail out a guy in Oregon who was arrested for collecting rain water on his own land.
I hope to God you're trolling.
Btw, I'm a Christian, and it often feels like republicans only give lip service to Christianity for the easy votes. Doesn't matter that they have no clue what they're doing when in office, since many of them are only puppets for their donors, anyway.
DON'T COMPARE THE SELF SUSTAINABILITY OF THE TWO