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guest_ · 2 weeks ago
And knowing that no president in recent history- surprisingly not even the first black president (who if you were going to get money on radical divides you’d think “race” would be the ticket in America...) has been so widely disapproved of, so widely condemned at home and abroad, and has divided the country and incited such lunacy as the man the republicans would like to sit on the seat of power while the nation schisms over him.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Whatever your thoughts on the man are- let’s say roughly half the country is at odds with the other half over HIM. Specifically him and his actions. In part he’s a symbol- blow back. Liberals put a person of color in the Whitehouse and then tried to put a woman or a socialist in and he is the blow back. But a presidents truest job is the well being of the nation- and a president that divides a nation on itself is problematic. His presence is an issue.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
The dems didn’t have a strong case to impeach. They had a case he’s done wrong. We know that. His allies know that. Why do you think so many of them go to jail? Name another sitting president with as many friends and coworkers in jail or under investigation in the last 50 years. They knew the Republicans controlled the vote and they knew- and did nothing major- to curry votes before they jumped in. A conviction was never going to happen. It was a very expensive and disruptive way to try and embarrass a man who goes in public looking that way and saying and doing the things he does- a man you ant embarrass by showing that he shit his pants.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
So it WAS a sham. Liberals wouldn’t impeach Obama because he had gotten politically tricky. Barry 10 Drones is a hero to the democratic folks- what’s the line- “we did what had to be done.” The Democrats don’t like him. More than half the country doesn’t. They wanted to drag him. Can you blame them? It was a waste. He’s Teflon now and they may have hosed the election on this tantrum.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
No one needed witnesses to start because everyone knew their vote before the evidence and no matter the evidence- on both sides. In a democrat majority he’d be out if a supreme deity vouched for him. What’s shocking isn’t that they didn’t need to hear witnesses- it’s a waste of time on a fixed vote anyway. It’s that they didn’t even try to keep the appearance- on either side- that the process actually mattered at all. That’s bold. The bold we’ve seen lately in politicians and those in power breaking the rules and not giving two sh1ts about covering it up- even flaunting it.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Once upon a time- all this stuff was STILL happening- they just kept it secret. There’s no fear now. It’s always been the rule that if you were “in” you were golden. Near untouchable- unless people caught you red handed. Then your friends needed to distance themselves to save face. Now- we all know so no one tries to hide it and everyone points at everyone else and says that’s just how the game is played. Criminals have public parties with speeches to celebrate and brag about how untouchable they are.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Famousome mentions secret votes leading to dictatorship and that is true. That’s why votes are public- to keep politicians honest- you can’t lie and say you voted one way to the public. But... when a less than majority of the population is represented by a government that refuses to be subject to and tries to erode the checks and balances of power in the name of freeing their hands to “do what is best...” When a trial is a formality and you don’t even feel the need to put on a good show to make it look like you care for process or consideration... I wonder if that isn’t dangerous too?
famousone · 2 weeks ago
Erode checks and balances? That ain't coming from the Executive. If the Legislature thinks POTUS is obstructing them, the Supreme Court has the specific authority to make that ruling. The Executive is CIC, and has every foreign relations authority shy of ratifying treaties and declaring war. As well as every authority to investigate wrongdoing committed by his predecessor. There are many things I dislike involving Trump, but he ain't the one overstepping precedent and procedure.
The situation we have is the natural consequence of an overgrown Federal Government and a complacent citizenry. At the very least the man at the head is dedicated to improving our domestic and foreign situations while cutting much of the fat from the bureaucracy that directly contradicts the vision of the founders.
metalman · 2 weeks ago
@mialinay basically the 4 reasons with, varying degrees of relevance, republicans didn't hear any witness testimony was because (according to them):
1: Witnesses were called to the House hearings which were included into the records that was sent to the trial in the Senate.
2. Many if not most republicans were going to side with the president no matter what. As with all impeachment proceedings, the constitution is vague in regards to what constitutes high crimes and misdemeanors so the votes tend to fall on party lines.
3. Of the moderates considering a switch vote many of them didn't perceive the crimes as being those worthy of removal of office so to extend any longer was pointless.
4. The last thing I'll say is that, potentially, the fact that the incumbent president upon Trumps impeachment would be Mike Pence who is an ultra-conservative. This isn't someone who apeals to many moderates as an alternative to Trump.
mialinay · 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone for your explanations. :)
I still find it stupid.
bethorien · 2 weeks ago
idk if its been said yet or not but "the white house" "blocked" witnesses for the hearing in that some witnesses were called and did not show up to speak under orders from the white house.
famousone · 2 weeks ago
Executive privilege. If a person is a part of the Executive Branch, they serve at the pleasure of POTUS, and as an extension of his authority.
If Congress wants to overrule privilege, they ask the Supreme Court to make a ruling. Or you could act like Pelosi, declare it too dangerous to wait for SCOTUS to make a ruling, and then accuse the President of obstructing Congress, nevermind that she never went to the Court and that she decided to sit on the articles for a month anyways.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
The logic behind the system is sound- but there are some deeply troubling things about the reality. The “executive privilege” derived from the CIC- who’s under investigation- and uses their privilege (it’s theirs extended to-) to withhold evidence that could be used against them is a bit fishy. While I do believe that you are correct in your checks and balances analysis- and letting Pelosi make a call that she gets to make Supreme Court or even judicial decisions is dangerous....
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Given that the current CIC and his people blocked the rightful election of a Supreme Court nominee by the previous CIC so they could hand pick a aligned candidate to their administration- and subsequently appointed said aligned candidate...
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
99% of everyone KNEW the outcome before this started. The news, even the politicians involved all stated that there was basically a snowballs chance in hell of them getting an impeachment- nothing to do with evidence- the Executive, legislative, and judicial top rungs are all controlled in majority by allies of the current POTUS who are ideologically or financially aligned to him. We are about as close to a dictatorship (through cronyism) that we’ve ever been- at least openly.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
One single republican spoke against the POTUS- citing his conscience as his cause- and the POTUS himself as well as the Whitehorse publicly and to his peers blasted the guy and beat him down. He’s a political pariah. Not even a “well- he did what he thought was right but it was poor judgment...” they accused him of faking his religion and voting out of jealousy that he couldn’t be president.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
It’s fu(ked- and we don’t want to debate due process when we are talking about a POTUS who has not only repeatedly tried to erode it or circumvent it- but who has overstepped several times but been “forgiven” by... cronies. From the intimidation to the excommunication- this isn’t being ran like a government- it’s like a mob full of high schoolers who thought mean girls was an instructional video. And the democrats are far from perfect- their biggest sin in all this is that they can’t even figure out how to be properly crooked right so they are trying to play chess with a master without understanding the rules when they try to get dirty on these guys.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
To me it isn’t a “Trump” issue or a party issue. No one should be celebrating or feeling good. We should all be disgusted. These are our leaders behaving this way- across all the isles- acting like school children and thugs. These are people supposedly accountable to US-all so caught up in games and grudges and power and what THEY want that we are just pawns to use and influence to legitimize whatever they are doing- be that intimidating foreign powers or wasting millions and causing unrest over a pointless and weak impeachment that a first year law student with brains wouldn’t have brought.
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Our POTUS and many of us look at the world concerned. Trying to keep America ahead of election meddling and hackers and enemies of rivals in a global economy. The POTUS says he’s building a wall and causing diplomatic friction- “rejecting unfair deals” and turning down climate accords etc to keep America competitive. Dog- does all that matter if America is bursting at the seams to tear itself apart? All this crap is dividing us and making us WEAKER as a country. And it isn’t Trump to blame-
guest_ · 2 weeks ago
Whatever a person thinks of him or his politics- the popular vote didn’t elect him or nominate him. His historically low approval ratings show you that it isn’t himself that keeping him in power and despite what some would believe- none of this stuff is just him. Our system and our officials are failing us and we are fighting EACH OTHER over who wins “Mr. America” and spinning our wheels on bullshit. If he or anyone else in power REALLY cared about the well being of the country they’d stop trying so hard to divide it and learn to.. I dunnoh... be democratic and work with people to fix the things we can agree need fixed?