If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates.
Not sure where shadowstorm197 has done their research, but I'm almost certain you've looked at murder/suicide rates both related and non-related to firearms. Just as a comparison, firearm-related deaths per 100,000 residents in Australia (my country, where guns are allowed for recreational purposes and on farms, and certainly aren't a household object) in 2010 was 1.06. In America it was 10.3 per 100,000. More to the point, on our news, every single day there seems to be another mass-shooting of innocents. That's not to mention all the people that are innocent that are killed singularly. Do some research. It could, literally, save lives.
No, other guest, you need to correct your research. You can't count guns deaths in realtion to suicide, might as well outlaw tall buildings and blades of all kinds. People who are desperate to end their lives will use what ever means they can have access to, be it guns or rope. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, and the annual rate of homicide by guns per 100,000 population was 0.52. Out of every 100 households, 29 own a gun of somekind. Yes, America has a higher ownership rate of 43 out of 100, but our homicide by guns was 3.0 out of 100,000, not the 10.3 you stated. Brazil have very strict gun laws, yet their murder rates by guns are 18.1 per 100,000. What I'm saying is guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Also, remember what Gandhi said, "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." It's because if you take guns away from people, they will have no way of defending themselves from that which comes to kill and control, be it a criminal or a government (though, hopefully not your own).
The issue is about culture as much as it is about guns. The United States glorifies guns and makes the use of a gun something to be proud of. You see the Winchester's blowing demons away...and you see The Doctor reasoning away an issue.
So you're generalizing gun owner's as Rambos who choose violence over reason? Words and reason are most gun owner's first choice, however people are lead to believe differently by movies and other media. I'd love to be able to talk my thru any deadly altercation but I'm sure that don't won't usually happen.
Ha ha, it's true, the formers of the US government gave us the right to bare arms to keep oppressive governments of all forms in line. Try to invade the US land and we won't have to wait for the military to fight back, just like in the days of our founding.
I'm not generalizing gun owners at all. I know plenty of gun owners who are responsible and collect antiques for show. Heck, I just had a conversation for a guy about his guns. I'm generalizing a mass culture of gun worship that exists in the media, which is why I mentioned the beloved Supernatural and Dr. Who. And I would contend the "check on our government" aspect. For one, if the government wanted to kill you, a gun will be worthless against a bunker-buster shot from a drone. Secondly, why would a government give people the right to bear arms with the intention of rising up against said government? The text of the 2nd amendment clearly states the right to bear arms for a well regulated militia. The 2nd amendment was put in the constitution to mollify the anti-Federalists, not as a way for dissatisfied citizens to rebel.
Who regulates a well regulated militia? Right now, that militia is the National Guard, which is run state-by-state but overseen by the federal government. If the US government wanted to kill somebody, no gun in the world would stop them. Look, I'm not against gun ownership, I'm against gun culture and the fetishizing of firearms.
Dude...US Code 311 states "(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia." Section A states... "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." Yes, the National Guard is the militia.
Weaponry held by citizens may seem insufficient compared to that of a modern day military but guerrilla warfare fought with hit and run tactics is extremely effective and the ideal form of a rebellion from less advanced revolutionaries. Therefore the weapons are useful
(Different guest) not terribly. Guerilla warfare may win wars, but it requires expiriance or training, and proper terrain. For the average civilian, or group of civilians, those factors dont play in
We defend our...... WITH HIGHLY TRAINED PEOPLE using guns.
Should we expect trigger happy ass hats with minimal training and no field experience to take down a shooter in a room full of children?
no
Should we fund our schools to provide adequate security and improve our mental health system to avoid problems like these in the future?
Yes.
So you do realize most gun owner's train with their weapons platforms more often than many police and security officials. Note saying military levels but only special units do that anyway. I'd take my chances with average Joe with a concealed weapon on scene over waiting for an official to show up. Your comment just reinforces the stereotype imposed on people who choose to carry a firearm and defend themselves and families. I am for improving mental health but I've not really heard any ideas on how we should approach this.
Oh asnakeinmygt, you had to take a dip in the crazy pond. Many studies have cited that police and security officials are indeed better at life and death moments than the common gun owner. For once thing, they train extensively in remaining calm when adrenaline forces the avarage person to fight or flight mode (panic). It's during fight mode that people start shooting, often not even hitting what they were aiming at, and flight can lead to you getting shot. You don't think, you just act, and that's when people die, because the gun owner was grossly unprepared for dealing with the situation, whether they be victim or criminal. Many people who have killed by gun did not mean to, it just happened because they panicked. Don't try to be a hero and please wait for the cops, unless it's life or death and you're willing to take a life and possibly give up your own.
Denying the average Joe a gun can only be bad, Police response is never fast enough, the shots are already fired. A Joe with a gun can be the difference between 2 dead plus the shooter, or 20 dead, with the shooter offing themselves.
Ever read statistics of how many shots hit per shots fired by an officer or other combatant in said situation? I'd actually be interested in these studies if you have links to them. Personally I'm good with signing off at this point even though I've kept the dialogue going. In the end it comes down to our freedom of choice and our right to make that choice when a bad situation arises. I respect others people's views on defending themselves I just prefer to exercise my own right of self preservation.
Look, if half of Americans were carrying guns, would thugs and violent gun men really want to try and cause problems if there is a 50/50 chance that a civilian could take them down easy?
Should we expect trigger happy ass hats with minimal training and no field experience to take down a shooter in a room full of children?
no
Should we fund our schools to provide adequate security and improve our mental health system to avoid problems like these in the future?
Yes.