The value of the work you do

Why did that get downVoted?

Because of those neocon victims who got told that even mentioning the word "minimum wage" means lazy people want to steal their property, well, technically, their parents... I don't live in the US but I think to lead a decent live from $15/h you'd have to go pretty rural. But from $7,25? A full time job should pay for a full time life, no matter if you're flipping burgers or scratching shit stains out of toilet bowls. Jobs that take a higher qualification and bear higher responsibility should pay off much better. In times before PPP in vitally important sectors and before a total commercialization of literally all life sectors, that was more or less common sense for anyone but millionaires. But all that communist talk alone might bring todays corporate profits down, so in a happy, brainwashed, privileged place like this, it's getting downvoted.

As I said above: in 2014 the poverty rate for full time workers was just 3%. And the Cato institute found that among workers earning between 7.25 and 10.10 per hour, just 13 percent live in poor households. "A full time job should pay for a full time life" is a nice sentiment, but without definite terms, it's a worthless platitude. Why should wages be set at some arbitrary number instead of dictated by a market pricing mechanism? Further, where does it end? Do we also subsidize those working full time as photographers or musicians? What about an utterly worthless profession like underwater basket weaving?

You mean after the neocons raped all civilized societies and made most of us their bitches, we cannot just simpla turn the wheel around and go the right way? Yeah, you got a point there. And I guess all the non-poor people with their three jobs barely helping them not to die are happy they're not officially living in poverty.

First, what do you mean when you say "after the neocons raped all civilized societies and made most of us their b*tches? Second, data from the Census Survey of Income and Program Participation also suggest that minimum wage workers are not living in hardship. Just 19.0 percent reported difficulty making ends meet, just 10.5 percent reported difficulty paying utility bills on time, just 7.6 percent reported difficulty paying rent, and just 9.6 percent reported difficulty seeing a doctor when needed.
Are there some people working multiple jobs, yes, but raising the minimum wage, overall has poor target efficiency. Why is that the case? Because nearly two-thirds of those earning between 7.25 and 10.10 per hour live in households with incomes over twice the poverty line, and over 40 percent live in households with incomes over three times the poverty line. Other research suggests that poor single-female headed households make up less than 5 percent of all affected workers.

The neocon rape - as you bloody well know - has successfully pretended that the private sector can manage vital services "better" than the government. Taxes were lowered a lot to corporations, and and a little to workers and employees. But while the corps make very, very nice profits, everyone else pays higher prices for those vital services. They are paying the cost PLUS the profit, so they have less than before. The real income of most people went down the last 10-15 years, and if you find it acceptable when "just" 1 out of 5 minimum wagers have "reported difficulty making ends meet" I'd say you're part of the problem.

I have never met anybody who uses the word neocon in an argument as a derogatory term define their use of the phrase for me. I truly do not know what you mean by using neocon as an insult.

I know you know I am not using the correct term here. I don't mean the neoconservatives you find in Wikipedia. In my book a neocon is someone who is stealing the peoples money and give it to corporations, while pretending this serves a conservative capitalist agenda. Conservative capitalism however cares of people and is trying to avoid social unrest by giving everyone at least a small share of the big pile of wealth white people stole from the rest of the world. Thats not really great, but it's better than what we see today: greedy corporation dodging regulations and taxes and putting a price tag on everyfuckingthing.

Dude, sometimes you make some valid points but you weave in so much vitriol that it's hard to work with.

I’ve never encountered the phrase “neocon rape” before this conversation. Also, would you please give a few examples of the private sector attempting to manage vital services (I’m not sure I understand what they are, sorry). While real income may have declined, most people are better off today than they were 10-15 years ago. I know the date is outside the scope of 15 years, but the American Enterprise Institute estimates it would have cost more than 3.5 million dollars to make an iPhone in 1991, but today you can buy one for less than 1000. 3 million people earned the minimum wage in 2014, so, out of the 125.51 million people who are employed in the US, 600,000 min wage workers reported difficulty making ends meet. I’d say we’re doing pretty well. How do you suppose we solve the “problem” that I am a part of?

How about most public-private partnerships? Social Services? Penal system? Education? Military? You think you're doing well cause you can afford a fucking Iphone when more people than 10-15 years ago have to struggle for ends meat while corporation profits are rising? Did you wear a bow-tie and a checkered shirt as a kid? Are you still a kid?

Of course social services are better managed when managed privately. Welfare’s purpose should be to get people off of welfare, which presents a conflict of interest for a governmental agency that can offer people things in exchange for votes to remain in power. In my experience, private education is far superior to public education. There is a reason America’s private universities are the best in the world (Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc.) I’m not sure why you’re resorting to rudeness when I’ve been kind. It’s patently false that more people are struggling than 10-15 years ago. The middle class in America is shrinking because individuals are moving into higher income classes. Yes, I did wear bow-ties and checkered shirts as a kid and I still do, proudly. I’m a 25 year old fixed income trader.

And my point about the iPhone is that people are doing well because things are getting cheaper. Evidence: http://www.aei.org/publication/the-rich-are-getting-richer-and-the-poor-are-getting-richer-the-good-old-days-are-now/

Oh, so you're essentially a tick. FOAD

Care to explain what you mean, or are we done with all constructive debate entirely?

Because this will bug me if I don’t say it: I like how you resorted to name calling instead of addressing literally any of the points I made. You’ve truly mastered the art of argumentation! Also, I work for a firm that exclusively works with health care, senior living, and affordable housing organizations, in what lofty profession do you work?

Yea, I let rodents ejaculate into super tiny test tubes and that helps beating cancer and that zika shit. How is that important?

No one said it wasn't important, your work is vital to the health care industry. But my work financing the building and expansion of hospitals is also vital to the health care industry.

You. Are. A. True. Idiot. What you're actually helping with is creating profits on services that are so vital for people, they should be provided for by non-profit utilities by all means. Making it subject to profit based considerations can only be bad for the people in need of these services and is a total obscenity and a malignant tumor in the very back bone of this society.
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Actually, I'm not jerking off mice and rats. At least not for a living. I am developing phone apps that help investment bankers cope with their conscience by giving them electric shocks whenever they type phrases like "inevitable hardship" or "make it rain", you get the drift.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Please explain to me how I am helping create profits on services by developing and executing low-cost, term-favorable solutions to finance or refinance capital projects? We disagree about the role of profit based consideration in society, and judging by your “job description” it’s apparent you’re not very fond of the financial industry.

Dude, that would have been at least two hefty shocks from that app.

Let me know if you need investors.

Its going to be crowdfunded and its going to be nonprofit. See? You feel these shocks even without an app, just by reading those naughty, naughty words.

Which of the 29 types of nonprofit will the app be classified as?

Especially given tha crap these guys have to take from obnoxious/idiotic customers.

Both your points are invalid and yes i do say minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs. Thats why they're minimum wage. Ive worked at fastfood places before and I've delt with obnoxious custumers before. Its part of the job and if you cant handle it then quit. If you honestly believe working at MickeyD's flipping burgers is a solid career choice then gl to you. But don't go asking for more money for a job anyone can do.

The problem tends to center more around family providers that never had the time or money to get an education. Often times they are stuck working these "entry level"/minimum wage jobs. Raises are a thing though, though in many corporations a raise is promised and never received. Promotions also exist, but those are handed out to those who not only work hard, but have fewer commitments than those with family's and a second or third job, because the promotion requires more of you. It's not just about minimum wage. There are so many factors to consider when we have this discussion, we will talk ourselves in circles. Better solutions involve more farmers markets and help yourself places where you can garden for free and have access to foods. Rules regarding the throwing out of less desirable food could be changed and that food can be donated, as often someone just put sauce on a burger when the customer didn't want it, or an item is at its sell by date. A lot of money goes into groceries..

Your going into a much broader and diverse spectrum of the topic. At this point you could pull out many different situations and debate over it for eternity as to why some things you are saying make sense or why some do not. Its not worth the time discussing all the possible reasons why someone is stuck in a minimun wage job or if it was the cause of their own past actions that caused it. The point being that these jobs aren't meant to help someone live comfortably. They are there to help people gain work experience and some money to further themselves. I understand the point that your trying to make and i respect it. But the fact of the matter is the you shouldnt shape entry level jobs into anything more than they should be. A person working an entry level job shouldnt be able to support a family comfortably or else whats the point of getting a better job?

Right. That is the point entirely. Entry level jobs aren't meant to support a family or fund an expensive lifestyle. My argument was more in support of what you are saying, entry level jobs are what they are because it's what theyre meant to be. And people get hung up on things like families and food and education to support their arguments, and I was trying to say you don't resolve those by raising up entry level jobs, but rather by coming at it from a different approach for those individuals.

My apologies then. I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought that you meant that entry level jobs should have higher wage in the cases where people have to support their families with them.

Oh, not at all. I have a tendency to not come across clear. I'm used to having to reexplain. I just get so many things I want to say and end up missing the entire point of what I was saying in the first place. Apology accepted. And I'm sorry for not being more concise :)