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guest
· 5 years ago
· FIRST
MS-13 started in California to protect illegal Salvadorian immigrants. Deportation didn't create the problem. Ignoring immigration laws did.
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guest_
· 5 years ago
You make a good point. Deportation didn’t make the problem. When thousands of Salvadoran refugees were neglected by the court system and not processed as refugees but instead labeled as undocumented migrants, it created a climate where large groups had no legal rights. When the prejudices and exploitation towards undocumented and documented Latinos in Los Angeles led the youth to become frustrated and reject trying to fit in to a system that didn’t want them, and live in fear- they did what most anyone would do and tried to defend themselves. That effort became a notorious gang. The recognition and granting of legal status to refugees from El Salvador in the early 90’s helped but was too little too late. guest is right. Had refugee status been granted earlier, and had these immigrants been welcomed into society and treated decently- we likely could have avoided the whole thing. So yes- by reforming immigration laws and society to integrate immigrants instead of making them criminals...
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guest_
· 5 years ago
... we could have avoided many problems of the 20th and 21st century. Well said @guest. Hopefully we learn our lesson and don’t leave even more problems for our children and theirs by building some sort of metaphorical wall between us.
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popsy
· 5 years ago
Wnen I first read it, I though that you told yourself 'well said'. Haha , too, me a second to realize that you were referring to the guest's comment before you. I do wonder where these people that post this garbage live . What country lets just anyone come and go in and out without checking them out first. I don't think the wall will work. Technology such as sensors, drones,even blimps could do a better job of securing it. IMHO
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guest_
· 5 years ago
Hey popsy. Lol. I could see it looking that way. No- I agree with you. Unless and until we live in some sort of utopian harmonious world we can’t just put borders on the honor system. But it’s such a messed up debate that this country keeps having. It’s the same debate that went on after 9/11 about a boat load of security measures and funding that was allocated to “anti terrorism.” People whipped into a frenzy and were all aboard for anything they were told would make things “safer,” even as credible experts told them it was bunk. Fast forward to all the exposes about misalocation and use of these funds, about Mayberry PD biting tanks and NBC gear... of all the many ways to secure American borders- a wall is a shite plan...
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guest_
· 5 years ago
Now the logic is sound. If a 5 year old girl or some random dude who wants a job can make it across the border- so can a terrorist. Drug dealers and foreign agents tend to have technology and money and resources that make them less likely- but still vaguely possible to be stopped or slowed by a wall. But it sure would be a hell of a lot easier to tell the real “bad dudes” coming across the border if we could reduce the number of regular folks trying to make the crossing. If we actually opened up our borders some to facilitate the crossing of people legally- we would have a much easier time pointing and saying: “yup. These guys trying to sneak across are likely dangerous..” The North Korean border crossing is the most heavily patrolled and guarded in the world and the North and South are both routinely able to smuggle contraband and agents across. Hell, itsevwry few years that the south discovers some tunnel system.
guest_
· 5 years ago
I’ll tel you right now there are two ways an unflinching stance on border security goes. One is that we dump hundreds of billions into it to end up protecting American fruit picking and cleaning jobs since if you’re VERY lucky that’s who the current plans MIGHT stop and little else- and end up just tossing the whole thing in the trash in a few administrations and letting the security infrastructure rot away as a monument to wasted money- or the other is that it ends with big brother. That politicians and Americans won’t be willing to admit that so much money was thrown away, so they’ll keep throwing money at it to build on a “comprehensive plan.” When it doesn’t give the numbers they want to see- they’ll get desperate and need to show results. That’s when they’ll turn to the one options left.
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guest_
· 5 years ago
We can’t control what happens on the southern side of the border, so there’s free reign more or less to circumvent any systems we put in place. Where desperation and time meet you will get results. So as you say- the “war” will ultimately need to be fought on this side of the border. That means sensors and surveillance for whatever get over. That’s 24 hour monitoring of American soil and anywhere close to the border including towns. That’s monitoring radio and data transmissions tontey and find the sophisticated signals used by drug dealers on their sophisticated telecom networks- and that means sorting through and Americans data that happens to cross through the area. That means increasing requirements for documentation and identification in daily life. The easiest and surest way to find people who legally don’t belong is to make document chaecks compulsory. That’s one of the primary ways that undocumented immigrants are able to “hide in plain sight.” Through avoiding transactions...
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guest_
· 5 years ago
And situations requiring identification. That also means dealing primarily or exclusively in cash- which is also preferred for most types of crime. Which means introducing new financial reforms much as was done post 9/11. Increasing the oversight and making. It harder to deal in cash or have transactions the government isn’t aware of. And through this process increasingly sophisticated transaction schemes involving physical barter, hard or impossible to trace pre paid credit and gift cards, etc will likely be developed along with ancillary new types of crime that halo from these new methods.
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guest_
· 5 years ago
Short of literally mining the border and employing automated and manned weapon systems with sophisticated 24/7 surveillance- there aren’t really any solid bets. It’s just throwing good after bad. In fairness there is no security system that can’t be broken- and that doesn’t mean a person shouldn’t lock their doors or use a car alarm just because a skilled and or determined person can circumvent those things. But the core of any security system is weighing the costs in money and effort against the potential benefit.
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guest_
· 5 years ago
Tl:dr- the Mexico Arizona border alone generates 10 billion dollars a year in estimated profits for cartels. They are far more motivated to continue making 10 billion dollars a year from just that single states border crossing plus the sun from all other states- they have far more profit to spend defeating our systems than we can afford to spend on securing them. DARE was stupid. It didn’t work because it was stupid and I’ll conceived. But if you want to stop a huge amount of cross border traffic you just take away the incentive to do so. Why not invest in Mexico instead? Why not invest in America and elevating our population. Why not work at creating legal channels for much of this crime so it is no longer a scary monster in the dark but something we can see in the open?
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popsy
· 5 years ago
One thing that I don't think that the people pushing for the wall consider, is how much are we going to pay for head of lettuce, an orange, pecans,tomatoes,ect.
guest_
· 5 years ago
It’s very true. You seldom of ever see ICE raid farms. Everyone knows that agriculture depends on undocumented migrants. When you’re making $10k or less a year for 14 hour back busting days with no OT, time off, holidays, benefits... that’s not a job a lot of people will take when you can make more minimum wage most places. California is a major farm state and a job at In N out burger will start you at $15/hr, a long shoreman who does comparably hard work makes $25-50/hr, OT, double time, paid holidays and other significant bonuses and benefits. It doesn’t pencil out. They’ve been raising farm wages to entice citizens to take the job- but it isn’t working. It’s not a job I’d touch for under about $100-150k a year with union and benefits- and even then I don’t know I’d take it even if I was making less than that. There was a movie called “day without a Mexican” that sums it up pretty nicely.
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popsy
· 5 years ago
Exactly!
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