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skybirds15
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
Or maybe it was your good luck to not get arrested by a psycho with anger issues and his three amoral buddies?
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Possibly. Depending on how we slice up the data- we can say that statistics do or do not support racial bias in police use of force. It’s a well known fact that most people, regardless of wether they agree with the existence of systemic racism or not- agree on: black people make up a disproportionate percentage of those arrested and convicted for most violent or “street level” crimes.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So one popular narrative breaks down a total of a given incident of force or death involving white suspects, and then creates a percentage of use of force or fatality in calls on white suspects versus the use of force as a percentage of black suspects.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The conclusion this will generally yield- is that if we were to keep the same percentage of suspects force is used against the same- but make the number of total suspects from the “white” and “black” groups the same- that black suspects are actually LESS likely on a per incident basis to have fire used against them as a statistic. A nice clean model. I guess that sums it all up?
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Edited 4 years ago
guest_
· 4 years ago
Not quite. These models ignore some extremely important points, or are (not necessarily by design, by by the nature of data and accuracy of data available-) flawed. For example- most studies quoted which compare the use of force against “armed suspects” define “armed” as a very loose term. They’ve included data for when a suspect had a weapon in a vehicle for example- However in many of these cases the officer may not have known there was a weapon in the vehicle and that information was discovered or confirmed AFTER deadly force was used. So then- as an example- if we compare a case where person A had a gun and an officer was unaware but used deadly force; and a case wher person B had a gun where an officer WAS aware and used deadly force-
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guest_
· 4 years ago
if we call both suspects “armed” it seeks equal- but if we consider from the shooters perspective that suspect A was actually UNARMED to their knowledge- that becomes a person shooting someone who they couldn’t confirm had a weapon- and is not the same thing.
guest_
· 4 years ago
A other critically important point to such vague analysis? A TOTAL number of cases does not have relevance. We are looking specifically for cases where use of force was UNJUSTIFIED. It is not material to the debate wether or not police use JUSTIFIED force- the issue is specifically about police using UNJUSTIFIED force- and the question of racial bias in policing is a question of wether police are more likely to use UNJUSTIFIED force against one group than another.
guest_
· 4 years ago
So perhaps one man happened to be the unlucky guy that got the psychos. But what of Breonna Tailor, shot in her own home? Was that just bad luck? What of Charles Kensey- shot by police while on the ground, hands in the air, while pleading for the life of an Austin patient? A non criminal, unarmed, doing nothing illegal? Unlucky too?
guest_
· 4 years ago
So as this discussion goes- it’s not terribly relevant what color the person who gets shot is ultimately- because if these people are all just unlucky and happen to get psychos- there’s still a HUGE problem when it seems that we keep finding “psycho cops” all over the country who are on active duty in the community and armed.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
It is not only an odd coincidence that so many of these psychos just happen to use unjustified force on black people- but an INCREDIBLE coincidence and VERY odd that we can, in hindsight after the fact- see that these “random” psychos will almost always have in their files numerous complaints and disciplinary actions- and strangely enough a large percent have a history of these reports and reprimands specifically for... wait for it....
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Race related infractions.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Now- oddly enough- the man that actually killed Floyd most directly... had a history of such complaints- including dragging a woman out of her car in a use of what was deemed unjustified force. Looking at all the men involved- personally I doubt it was racism that led them all to take part or stand by. That’s supported by the simple fact that police officers, like most uniformed service members- have a bit of a group mentality and are prone to- but not always- going along with their “own” or trusting at least that their fellows will know the limits they can go to. This time that bet was nota winner.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Is race a serious factor in these incidents? I dunnoh. Proving that imperially is all but impossible- the data needed isn’t available, it isn’t SOP to collect it nor is it practical to expect accurate reporting of all the details of every incident without bias of any sort intentional or subconscious perceptive bias.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Are there strong indications in many of these cases that race played a major factor in either the use of unjustified force, or in the use of a level of deadly force? Anecdotally there certainly is. In several cases that proof has met the burden of our legal system to say that beyond all reasonable doubt- yes there was. We will see if for George Floyd the evidence says this is racism- or just some psychos and incompetents.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But at the end of the day- it is irrelevant. Most of the police who serve us don’t accidentally kill people. In sum total- police are over 10x more likely to be killed by a person they talk to than a person who the police talk to is likely to be killed by them. Being a cop is hard. Most cops do between acceptable to down right amazing at the job. MOST.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But incidents like this don’t need to hinge on race because they are just unacceptable. It is completely unacceptable that we have officers serving with histories that could or would ban a civilian from owning a gun. That we hold so many officers to so low a standard that in most any other profession their transgressions would have them fired, barred, in jail, or placed somewhere they would not be able to interact with the public.
guest_
· 4 years ago
And- if you are going to say “if it isn’t about race then why do BLM and them need o make it about race?” Well- for THEM it IS about race. Doesn’t have to be for you or anyone else. You can still stand with them and say it’s unacceptable. Any laws or policies that come from that to protect citizens from this treatment are going to carry over to every race. For black people- it doesn’t matter if it’s racism or not because they FEEL racially targeted. I’m inclined to believe it when the groups of people tell me they face these problems that me and people unlike them don’t report happening in such great numbers.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
And hell- if you’re white or Asian or whatever- and you want to say: “but this stuff DOES happen to me and people I know!” Ok. Well- I’ve had to make it 20 Miles mostly on foot with a hole in my guts and my shit draining into my body or die. While navigating unfamiliar terrain. Could you do that? Some folks can’t get a headache and drive. We all feel pain differently.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So if you have these things happen, you either don’t feel it as deeply as these folks do- and or maybe then you need to be out there with them. “All lives matter” means shit if you’re on the couch at home and they’re out protesting. If you want change- join in and get it.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
If you aren’t effected by something and someone else is- that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. A husband doesn’t get periods but that doesn’t mean his wife isn’t having cramps just because he can’t feel them does it?
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skybirds15
· 4 years ago
Sounds like the amount of power that a police officer has in the US is disproportionately high to the entry requirements, along with the unfortunate fact that the majority of black people in the US live in a crab bucket where the bucket is made of crime, poverty, gangs, and single motherhood, thus giving any murderous person who wants to murder someone without consequences an easy demographic to target while making it as hard as possible to justify jailing the murderer, statistically.
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Edited 4 years ago