Well no. We KNOW that Joe Biden has won the presidency. We won’t know until December 14th if they’ll actually give it to him. Nuanced but important distinction. Ask Hillary about that one. Losing the vote didn’t stop Donald Trump from being president once before.
He hasn't won anything. There was not enough of a majority to make that conclusion until the recounts, first counts, and legal challenges are finished. Nuanced, but important distinction.
Well. No. Biden won the popular vote. Flat out. A recount COULD change the final numbers, but there is more than enough majority in number of states electoral votes and state votes in key states to make the call. But as of the close of ballot counts- Biden has won the popular vote. The remaining question isn’t wether he won, it’s wether he cheated to win. If he cheated to win there would be a recount. Trump could win the recount in theory. If Trump doesn’t win the recount- Biden would win the popular vote without any reasonable dispute. Then all that is left asides possible legal challenges (in what grounds?) would be an electoral vote. Assuming the states follow their state law (which several key states have pledged to) most electors are bound to vote the popular vote. It’s an important distinction, but nuanced.
So Donald Trump could still win the presidency by electoral vote. That is possible. There is a slim chance but a possibility he could win a recount of the popular vote. How Biden has at this time, as all ballots are counted, won the popular vote for the 2020 election. Winning by cheating is still wining- it just (usually) results in disqualification and the runner up taking the prize. You can win an election vote and lose the presidency. Hillary Clinton did it 4 years ago, if you remember. But if the unlikely scenario that Trump is able to win a recount, or is able to win the presidency through legal contest, do not happen- he cannot win the election. He would be able to seize the office or subvert the democratic process and will of the people, but walking up and taking or stealing a trophy isn’t the same as winning it.
Another nuanced and important distinction. But to be clear:
>Biden has won the popular vote for president in the 2020 election.
>Biden has not yet been legally made president of the United States. Donald Trump still has several paths by which he could become president again in 2020.
We know who the winner is now. We won’t know if he won by cheating until later, and we won’t know who is named president until at least December 14th. That’s the lay of the land.
That’s another nuance. The popular vote (for president) matters in a few ways. Firstly- it shows the will of the American people. That will isn’t inherently binding- but the popular vote is a measure of who the average American wants to lead. It allows us to gauge how well our represent ones are actually representing us. The second way it matters- is that what you allude to is that the president is elected by electoral vote. This is true. But many states (including some new ones after 2016) by law bind electors to vote with the popular vote for their delegation. A “faithless elector” in many states can be removed, or can even have their vote not counted at all of it goes against the popular vote. This is particularly important where the loss of an electoral vote could change the outcome of an election.
It is more accurate to say that the president isn’t elected solely by popular vote. Now- you are correct that the constitution (or the long standing interpretation of it) does not actually guarantee a presidential vote to citizens. The process of choosing electors is up to state law. Technically- so long as the candidates for elector qualify under law- they could hold a raffle or draw straws or just name friends and such. EXCEPT that most state laws clearly lay out a process by which electors are chosen based on popular vote, usually through a system where a majority party of popular votes for a state, gets to name electors through whatever process that party has for appointing electors. So in most states- the popular vote controls the electors which in turn controls who is elected in the next election.
So the constitution doesn’t give direct power to vote for president to popular vote, or even require a popular vote for president- but it lays the ground work that through representative democracy the popular vote defines who will decide the president. Even in a state where the state government chooses the electors, the state government is elected largely by popular vote. That is how a democratic representative republic works. Or one way anyway.
So while the popular vote doesn’t directly determine who the next president will be- it determines who most Americans want to be president, and if their representatives actually represent them- those representatives would largely inherently vote very closely to their constituents. And to prevent representatives from breaking their obligation to uphold the wishes of those who elected them directly or second hand- most states have laws that force electors to vote with the popular vote. So while who becomes president isn’t directly linked to the popular vote, it is linked. The popular vote also determines the make up of government and all the other people, such as the representatives on capital hill, who run the “day to day” of the nation, check and balance the president, and create new laws. So the popular vote does actually matter a lot. How much depends on where you are of course.
Those are quite a few words to say so little. Biden has not won the election yet, and the popular vote has no bearing on who will be President. These facts remain true and indisputable.
In the end- who takes office is out of your hands directly. That much is true. But we aren’t a direct democracy. One of the checks out system has, is that representatives must balance their actions with public sentiment. A public that feels their representatives aren’t representing them has options ranging from protest and dissent, to various mechanisms to remove a representative or end their career, all the way up to full out insurrection. The popular vote is in part a metric to help America decide if their politicians are enacting the American will, or if they are subverting democracy for their own ends.
@famousone- the popular vote DOES have bearing on who will be president. It just doesn’t have direct bearing. And Biden has won the popular vote. I have disputed it, and what you say contains facts but is not fact. I explained this to you. In detail. “The popular vote has no bearing on who will be president” is a patently false statement that shows a lack of understanding of the constitution and powers or grants the states, as well as individual state law. I think you have some studying to do.
>Biden has won the popular vote for president in the 2020 election.
>Biden has not yet been legally made president of the United States. Donald Trump still has several paths by which he could become president again in 2020.
We know who the winner is now. We won’t know if he won by cheating until later, and we won’t know who is named president until at least December 14th. That’s the lay of the land.