Lol. There is certainly some truth to this- but men- and let’s remove gender and just say people- quite often aren’t so direct or honest with their feelings. There are many possible reasons- but one of the key reasons being self protection. Not all encompassing- but let’s view two broad scenarios that cover much of “dating.” Scenario one: near or complete strangers: this one is a bit odd when we break it down. Asking out a near or complete stranger- we don’t know much or anything about them. We might have some minor observations like how they spoke to some friends or some staff etc- but really most of what we have is their appearance. Of course much of the point of dating is to get to know a person better- but we are often essentially saying: “I find you attractive and want to mate with you or stare at you more, but I want to see if you are also a person I’d like spending time with…” so this one can often be odd and uncomfortable if we apply much thought to it.
scenario 2 is where you know someone already- perhaps a friend or coworker or classmate where you have more information on who they are or how they behave etc.
in this scenario we have a little more depth and are approaching things more from an “I like who you are and want to know more” sort of angle- but now there is some existing relationship there which we may be worried about endangering.
In either scenario the possibility for rejection, potential social or career etc. consequences and such can be threats which sit on our minds.
Now, of course there are issues of things like gender roles and such in society- not that these things can’t or shouldn’t be changed but that not everyone wants to completely abolish or disrupt them. Some men want to be the ones to ask out a woman or to propose marriage and some women want to be the ones to do that right? In general though it is still not all that common or the “norm” in western society for women to propose marriage or for men to take the last names of women in marriage is it? So these things do factor in in various ways.
Then we teach the illusion concepts of romance and courtship. Romance is a bit hard to define and it is a bit different for everyone as is it’s importance- but at the core romance centers around mystery and excitement. Courtship is in many ways a game. It a game that people who are possibly interested in relationships together play. Not everyone plays the game the same way or sees the “rules” the same right? Not everyone likes the same games. That’s part of the point. Is the way you play the game and this other person play and enjoy the game compatible? Do you both have fun playing together? This is where we alleviate some of that oddness from the scenario where we meet strangers- romance is how we take things away from it being all about “you looked like I want to have sex so let’s hang out…” and move it into a deeper interest. If we start to play the romance game with them- a little bit to start- and they recognize and appreciate and respond yo our play style- we are building…
.. common ground. Ways we think the same. It becomes less about how they look and more about how they play- are we having fun together in this little romance game?
I want to be clear because “playing games” romantically has a negative context and I’m not talking about “toying with” someone or their emotions- humans are very much about play. Sports and competitions and jokes and exploration and all sorts of things. We learn and develop and find fulfillment through various sorts of play. Simply having a goal and working towards it is often a sort of play for humans. Most things that aren’t “life or death” can be called a sort of play for us. So our mating rituals tend to also hold these elements of play- think it is a coincidence that dates often revolve around leisure activities? For most people of most ages a date isn’t going somewhere quiet and comparing financial statements and medical histories and life plans and genetics data to ensure you are a practical fit. We tend to go do fun things and see if the other thinks they are fun too and if we have fun with them, and then in that process we explore the practical stuff- but dates are usually…
.. centered around things we find fun or enjoyable- our sense of play. Not a coincidence.
Most people want excitement and surprises in love- how often or how intense etc. varies- but the “traditional” models of love tend to be built around these cycles of surprise and excitement or quasi surprise and excitement. “Will they go out with me?” “Will they like this outfit?” “Will we have fun?” “Will there be a second date?” Going from dating to “steady” has its new things and excitements- lots of “firsts” and changes like possibly moving in or sleeping over or meeting the family and so forth.
Usually before those things get too “stale” people introduce engagement and marriage- also full of changes. Having children and all the new experiences and new interactions and aspects of your partner and so forth. These tend to not be coincidence- that’s generally part of romance- part of keeping excitement and surprise and fun in a relationship so it doesn’t stagnate.
Excitement and novelty and such have different importance to different people and it can change as we age- but most people enjoy SOME level and some form of these things. There can be stress that comes along with it- things like anxiety of course like “Will they/won’t they?” “Do they like me too?” And sometimes we are let down and sometimes we soar on a high of success. Life is full of “good stress” and “bad stress.” Videogames are a great example of many things involving humans because they are systems designed to cater to and/or exploit our way of thinking. Games tend to not be fun much of the time when there is no stress- no element of urgency or such be that a timer or rising lava etc. but some people don’t like that type of “fun stress” or can’t handle it. So what of a game like “Animal Crossing,” popular because it is so laid back? Well… it’s still full of surprises isn’t it? Chance? What is in the shop or who shows up in town or when and where you’ll find special items and such?
So not everyone likes the same types of games for sure- and that’s part of the point. You’re looking for in part someone who enjoys the same play as you- someone who is fun and interesting and shares some values in how you think and what you want. So there’s nothing wrong with just speaking up- being forward and direct. Lots of people like and appreciate that. Lots of people like their dating to play more like “animal crossing” with minimal anxiety and some pleasant surprise and variance but mostly a stable game play loop that isn’t full of ups and downs in extremes- and some people like a little more excitement or stress or such. When it comes to it- it really is less how others ask us out (providing they’re being respectful) and more on how we respond. If you aren’t someone who likes or picks up on “subtle hinting” or “invitations to make a move,” then people who communicate that way probably aren’t for you and instead of them changing their way of playing- you just need to go find..
.. people who play the way you like.
I mean- when we stop and think about it, if we are going to say to a person or a group: “change the way you engage in romance to suit my tastes (outside a context of respectfulness..)” what we are really saying is that for the ability to be able to date us they should change…. And well… is it really “their loss” at not getting to date us because they “came at us wrong” that we are concerned with in this example or is it that so many people are more upset at the opportunities they’ve missed to date people they’d wanted to date had they picked up on or reacted properly to more subtle advances? So I mean- it’s a valid question- is it for the woman’s benefit that you’d tell her to be direct, or your own benefit so you have an easier time?
Me thinks more the latter. Of course there are places of compromise and at some point if we are too indirect in life or relationships we do often sabotage our own happiness. People aren’t mind readers but there…
Is a zone in between “no sane person could have understood what you were thinking…” and “almost anyone paying attention and applying interest could or should be able to figure this out…”
There is a difference between being dishonest and expecting someone to puzzle out or prove for your true feelings and being honest but not saying everything that is on your mind and leaving it to them to invest in meeting you part way if they actually care.
In general, most of us want to know that someone cares enough to put in effort specifically for us- we often greet people by saying “how’s it going?” Or similar, but it’s expected that people generally will say something like “good, you?” Or “how’s it going” back etc. and keep it light. Most understand we aren’t actually asking them how they are doing and intending to listen to half an hour about their marital troubles or health right?
So then, say this person ends up in the hospital for their woes, would you think: “how could they have never told me they had this problem? Every Wednesday I did a head tilt and said: ‘sup and they never told me….” No. Of course not. You interacted at a very causal level. Nothing there suggested you cared about them more than the most basic levels of social convention dictated right? Likewise- how “special” would you feel to have a partner whom only saw you when it was most convenient for them but never put any effort to spend time with you? Someone who if you said: “I can’t drive to your work anymore for lunch because my car broke and I’m using the bus now, could you come to my work?” And you never saw them again for lunch? Most of us don’t want to just be someone another person calls over when they want something do we?
This extends to romance. Most people want to see some level of interest and investment by their partner. Most people want to feel like they have someone who understands THEM as a person and knows THEM- if a person has to tell you everything they feel or want that usually means you don’t understand them. That’s one aspect and another is interest.
Many of us can bake every Pokémon and it’s evolutions and how it evolves and things like weaknesses and moves and stats and natures and combos etc. we can rattle off spell and gear sets from games or the specs for various machines or every little nuance of the stock market or crypto game or every sneaker made for the last 50 years or whatever thing from books or films or whatever else we love. So it certainly can be disappointing to a partner of someone who can recite every fight Goku ever had and what happened when that person doesn’t realize after 6 months that their supposed partner gets cranky when they are stuck in the car and can’t…
.. stretch their legs or that they hate cilantro no?
And that starts before we’ve asked this person out or vice versa often doesn’t it? Because WHY do we want to go out? What is it that has our interest in this person?
Have we noticed little things about them and mannerisms or hobbies etc, or are they just good looking and we’d like the chance to get naughty with them?
How compelling is our interest? Do we really want to get to know them, or if they don’t practically jump in our laps are we not willing to put any more effort than that into dating them? And some will jump in and call out a double standard where traditionally and even to this day it tends to be on men to put up that effort- that this very meme points to that double standard that many women won’t put effort beyond subtle hinting etc. and expect a man to “make the move” or “chase” her. Well…
There’s no reason men can’t do it to. Most won’t, and many who will will find that it doesn’t get them the best success with landing dates. That’s sort of how it works though. That’s life. You can do most things however you want. Some ways tend to be more successful or a more well worn path, but it’s up to you on what you want and how you want to get there. You don’t HAVE to go to college to become an Astronaut- but like… your odds are much worse if you don’t. So you decide- do you want to take the “road less traveled” on principle or whatever reason or is a result what you mostly care about? Men are free to be coy, to play hard to get etc. a lot actually do- usually it’s the ones who don’t care so much wether they are alone or not or the ones who have lots of prospects and feel they can be choosey- but anyone can do it. Your results may vary vs. Chris Evans or whoever else of course.
So you be you, they can be them. If you aren’t having the success you want in relationships you can decide wether you want to try and examine why and possibly change your approach or wether you think it’s someone else’s fault or you’re fine as is and are ok to wait until someone who is compatible with you as you are comes along.
She can do the same thing and if her approach isn’t working for her, she can decide to examine it and maybe change or she can keep doing what she’s doing.
It probably isn’t good advice in general though to say that most people need to devalue themselves or compromise reasonable things to make it easier for people who can’t be bothered to invest more effort than is required to take a free sample at Costco might date them.
in this scenario we have a little more depth and are approaching things more from an “I like who you are and want to know more” sort of angle- but now there is some existing relationship there which we may be worried about endangering.
In either scenario the possibility for rejection, potential social or career etc. consequences and such can be threats which sit on our minds.
Most people want excitement and surprises in love- how often or how intense etc. varies- but the “traditional” models of love tend to be built around these cycles of surprise and excitement or quasi surprise and excitement. “Will they go out with me?” “Will they like this outfit?” “Will we have fun?” “Will there be a second date?” Going from dating to “steady” has its new things and excitements- lots of “firsts” and changes like possibly moving in or sleeping over or meeting the family and so forth.
Usually before those things get too “stale” people introduce engagement and marriage- also full of changes. Having children and all the new experiences and new interactions and aspects of your partner and so forth. These tend to not be coincidence- that’s generally part of romance- part of keeping excitement and surprise and fun in a relationship so it doesn’t stagnate.
I mean- when we stop and think about it, if we are going to say to a person or a group: “change the way you engage in romance to suit my tastes (outside a context of respectfulness..)” what we are really saying is that for the ability to be able to date us they should change…. And well… is it really “their loss” at not getting to date us because they “came at us wrong” that we are concerned with in this example or is it that so many people are more upset at the opportunities they’ve missed to date people they’d wanted to date had they picked up on or reacted properly to more subtle advances? So I mean- it’s a valid question- is it for the woman’s benefit that you’d tell her to be direct, or your own benefit so you have an easier time?
Me thinks more the latter. Of course there are places of compromise and at some point if we are too indirect in life or relationships we do often sabotage our own happiness. People aren’t mind readers but there…
There is a difference between being dishonest and expecting someone to puzzle out or prove for your true feelings and being honest but not saying everything that is on your mind and leaving it to them to invest in meeting you part way if they actually care.
In general, most of us want to know that someone cares enough to put in effort specifically for us- we often greet people by saying “how’s it going?” Or similar, but it’s expected that people generally will say something like “good, you?” Or “how’s it going” back etc. and keep it light. Most understand we aren’t actually asking them how they are doing and intending to listen to half an hour about their marital troubles or health right?
Many of us can bake every Pokémon and it’s evolutions and how it evolves and things like weaknesses and moves and stats and natures and combos etc. we can rattle off spell and gear sets from games or the specs for various machines or every little nuance of the stock market or crypto game or every sneaker made for the last 50 years or whatever thing from books or films or whatever else we love. So it certainly can be disappointing to a partner of someone who can recite every fight Goku ever had and what happened when that person doesn’t realize after 6 months that their supposed partner gets cranky when they are stuck in the car and can’t…
And that starts before we’ve asked this person out or vice versa often doesn’t it? Because WHY do we want to go out? What is it that has our interest in this person?
Have we noticed little things about them and mannerisms or hobbies etc, or are they just good looking and we’d like the chance to get naughty with them?
How compelling is our interest? Do we really want to get to know them, or if they don’t practically jump in our laps are we not willing to put any more effort than that into dating them? And some will jump in and call out a double standard where traditionally and even to this day it tends to be on men to put up that effort- that this very meme points to that double standard that many women won’t put effort beyond subtle hinting etc. and expect a man to “make the move” or “chase” her. Well…
She can do the same thing and if her approach isn’t working for her, she can decide to examine it and maybe change or she can keep doing what she’s doing.
It probably isn’t good advice in general though to say that most people need to devalue themselves or compromise reasonable things to make it easier for people who can’t be bothered to invest more effort than is required to take a free sample at Costco might date them.