That’s sadly something that many men, especially young men, and quite often frustrated men, seem to misunderstand. Women are people- like- each one of them is a separate person. Some women want you to ask them to be your girlfriend and others find that unattractive. Some want to be asked before you kiss them and others want to be grabbed and kissed. Some want a partner who is very traditionally masculine and others want a partner who is more sensitive and communicative. Some want a man who they see as secure in his sexuality and open and honest while others find anything shy of light repulsion at the concept of non hetero binary sexuality to be a turn off. Some women like to be chased and some like to chase and some just want things to “click” without anyone chasing and there are women all in between and they can have different moods on different days or times or with different people or in different settings and they can even change what they want as they age. Crazy I know.
So the thing is that when you are dating or trying to date- you’re generally trying to date a specific woman, not “women” as a gender. You have to get to know that woman and figure out where her boundaries and preferences are. You have to be yourself while being respectful or others. You have to remember that the “penalty” for going too far or too fast can be social suicide or even prison time but the penalty for going “too slow” or “not far enough” is generally that you might lose your chance with that person. Explaining why you’re on a list or serving some time will generally hurt your dating life more than losing one date- so you pick how to play things but do keep in mind women are people and they don’t all want the same things.
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· 1 year ago
I can't imagine any man being put on a social cancel list or even go to jail for asking for a date more than once or be a bit too eager. Seriously, wtf? "Grabbing and kissing" a woman against her will is (and has aways been) sexual harassment. Maybe she wants that, then she better show you some signals. Cant't read her signals? Don't do it. Not that hard, is it? People need to deal with that, always had to, probably will always have to, see my other comment. .
I like your other comment and generally agree with what I will call in shorthand:
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”
I do want to clear up that I didn’t mean that asking someone out twice a single time would ruin a person. I was being slightly hyperbolic in a sort of tongue in cheek “worse case,” but I do think you could risk a poor reputation if you make a habit of being “persistent” in your advances or gain a perception and reputation for it.
As for the grabbing and kissing any gender- agree. The concept is “mutual escalation,” people signal differently or read things wrong etc. being respectful, attentive, and slowly escalating contact or engagement are ways to help mitigate things and discover someone’s comfort threshold without stepping over a line. If they aren’t ok with you touching their arm- they probably don’t want a kiss. There are ways to be subtle about it, and some people appreciate that or find such subtlety to be more attractive, but when there is any doubt…
… ask. Consent does not HAVE to be verbal- that’s a complicated and dangerous statement I don’t want misinterpreted- and things like “marital rape” are real- but most boyfriends and girl friends or spouses do not ask permission to kiss or hold hands or touch. The thing is that as I said above and shouldn’t have to- women are people. What I think or you think or anyone else thinks is appropriate is not what is critical. Between a man and woman or any two people what matters is that they both have an understanding and respect for a concept of what is and isn’t appropriate and welcomed. It can take time to get to know someone well enough to understand what their “rules” are- it’s nice when we naturally align with another person but it cannot be assumed and when we don’t, we either need to adjust or walk away unless we want to risk a bad situation for all involved.
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· 1 year ago
I swear I've seen the exact idea this meme is based on in a 1980'ish MAD Magazine cartoon, done by Dave Berg, who was a fiftysomething then, so it was based on what he'd seen on the dating scene probably 20 years prior to that. There's always been men trying way too hard and women playing hard to get. If as a man you can't or won't deal or cope with insecurity and ambiguity, consider a hooker maybe. If as a women you're overdoing the hard to get game, deal with obnoxious men or consider becoming a cat mama. Has been that way and will be that way.
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”
I do want to clear up that I didn’t mean that asking someone out twice a single time would ruin a person. I was being slightly hyperbolic in a sort of tongue in cheek “worse case,” but I do think you could risk a poor reputation if you make a habit of being “persistent” in your advances or gain a perception and reputation for it.
As for the grabbing and kissing any gender- agree. The concept is “mutual escalation,” people signal differently or read things wrong etc. being respectful, attentive, and slowly escalating contact or engagement are ways to help mitigate things and discover someone’s comfort threshold without stepping over a line. If they aren’t ok with you touching their arm- they probably don’t want a kiss. There are ways to be subtle about it, and some people appreciate that or find such subtlety to be more attractive, but when there is any doubt…