Two? TWO? Pick two man. Pick ten. If this is referring to WW2- the US bombed quite a few cities into oblivion. In Japan alone fire bombing was devastating. Construction techniques and other particulars of the region and time made fire bombing extremely destructive and firestorms whipped across cities in what was surely a living nightmare and for a total death toll that exceeds the fatalities of the atomic bombs.
Since WW2 the us has bombed so many villages into oblivion that there are probably some that most histories don’t even record.
Of course that is par for the course in total war but it is horrible and not something that should be done let alone seen as anything but horrifying and unacceptable. Of course- it isn’t an excuse but one also need remember that the unofficial motto of the USA is fuxk around and find out. If the USA says they will bomb somewhere into oblivion unless… well, yeah. That’s probably going to happen unless….
Context is a bit important though. The USA went into Iraq under vague claims of WMD’s and even after the fireworks those claims couldn’t be substantiated. So even IF that were valid reason.. the reason didn’t exist.
The USA went to Afghanistan because some guys with some ties to the region made America have a bad day. While making America have a bad day is generally a poor decision, one might argue that the population of Afghanistan didn’t need to endure reprisals for some guys actions.
Of course part of how countries like America make sure to have lots of good days is making sure people understand it is not generally healthy or worthwhile to make us have a bad day. The message sent in Afghanistan was more akin to “if you hit us, we will hit SOMEONE, even if they weren’t involved..” which admittedly isn’t really so much an effective way to deter any particular individual from acting out unless they
happen to have a very strong sense of empathy and would hate to see someone else suffer for their actions- which generally isn’t what a terrorist is by definition- so that one was pretty questionable in context. In Japan- well I mean- no one should be bombed let alone atomic bombed but our leadership lacked the creative problem solving in how to otherwise deal with a a fanatical fighting force that had initiated hostilities and perpetrated one of if not the largest modern mass murder genocide rapes ever recorded while instilling their troops and citizens to fight to the end or die, leveraging deep rooted culture and history while painting Americans as brutal rapists that would inflict fates worse than death upon fighters and civilians.
So leadership just- ick. They just didn’t have any other tools when the whole “hey, anyone can literally see you can’t win this war so just quit and end the death” didn’t work- and the “hey, you need to surrender and accept that this is over” issued when the largest mechanized combat force in history had overcame their entire defensive line and left a shattered and sparce military to a country cut off from resources and starving and sat at their back door and was offered counter terms amounting to “we will say we are sorry, then you’ll let us rebuild our military- but we will let every man woman and child starve to death before we abandon our entrenched political elite or allow our pride to be dented…”
An old American saying on diplomacy goes: “wait too long to respond and get the bomb.” So I mean… one way or another a whole lot of people were about to die and some cities were going to get thoroughly devastated.
Do you reading this think it was still wrong? Well here’s the thing- if you think that america acted wrongly in those cases- you also don’t think it’s ok for others to act similarly. I mean- If Fred goes around saying you shouldn’t hit women and then punches his wife, if Bill hits his wife 60 years later and someone calls Bill out would a reasonable person say: “nah man. Nah. Let me tell you about Fred. He hit his wife and said it isn’t ok to hit women! There’s a real bastard. Leave Bill alone.”
I think not. Because Fred isn’t wrong in that it isn’t ok to hot women- really we shouldn’t hit anyone and should find other ways to deal with things. But like… yeah. Fred is wrong to hit his wife. What the hell does that have to do with Bill hitting his wife? Fred did it first?
Do you think the US is the only country that has ever destroyed a city…? Right now Russia is tearing through Ukraine- a country that didn’t even attack them. Ukraine was literally sitting around minding their business and Russia called them Nazis and invaded. After they already invaded and stole an entire resource rich and strategically important region because… something something.. look over there!
So I mean…. Does what Russia is doing make what America has done righteous? I don’t think so. Is what america has done in the past an excuse for what Russia is doing now? Do you believe it would be ok for your spouse to cheat on you because their parents cheated on each other…? What kind of idiocy is that?
We can’t really go back and un-devastate the cities america has destroyed. I mean- america actually has historically done pretty well on rebuilding or even improving cities we’ve destroyed- but that doesn’t undo the suffering or the deed. But like- if someone is doing something wrong RIGHT NOW, that can be stopped before it gets worse. You can’t redo history but we can change what happens right now. An overwhelming majority of Americans didn’t support our military actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam. The Korean War was contentious. America tried to stay out of direct combat in WW2 and it was the Japanese who most prominently kicked off our mobilization.
America didn’t want to tangle in WW1. American people don’t tend to like wars. Americans tend to live good and relatively easy lives. Most of us don’t want to fight or die when we could be at a beach or having some good food or spending time at home.
So I mean- as a government and even as a country america can be hypocritical. Most countries can. America doesn’t have a lot of moral high ground to condemn others from a position of innocence- but you don’t think even criminals recognize crimes? Like you think that every thief is going to just shrug if some old lady gets robbed and say: “I can’t say anything, I steal too…” or perhaps even if they are a thief they might still see it as wrong to rob a little old lady? Can parents who did poorly in school or had children at a very young age not tell their kids to be careful of such things? Perhaps those people are in an even better position to know wrong and warn against it because they have been there and made the wrong choices before? Can a murderer not pick up trash off the street because they want to make the world a more beautiful place?
Since WW2 the us has bombed so many villages into oblivion that there are probably some that most histories don’t even record.
Of course that is par for the course in total war but it is horrible and not something that should be done let alone seen as anything but horrifying and unacceptable. Of course- it isn’t an excuse but one also need remember that the unofficial motto of the USA is fuxk around and find out. If the USA says they will bomb somewhere into oblivion unless… well, yeah. That’s probably going to happen unless….
The USA went to Afghanistan because some guys with some ties to the region made America have a bad day. While making America have a bad day is generally a poor decision, one might argue that the population of Afghanistan didn’t need to endure reprisals for some guys actions.
Of course part of how countries like America make sure to have lots of good days is making sure people understand it is not generally healthy or worthwhile to make us have a bad day. The message sent in Afghanistan was more akin to “if you hit us, we will hit SOMEONE, even if they weren’t involved..” which admittedly isn’t really so much an effective way to deter any particular individual from acting out unless they
I think not. Because Fred isn’t wrong in that it isn’t ok to hot women- really we shouldn’t hit anyone and should find other ways to deal with things. But like… yeah. Fred is wrong to hit his wife. What the hell does that have to do with Bill hitting his wife? Fred did it first?
So I mean…. Does what Russia is doing make what America has done righteous? I don’t think so. Is what america has done in the past an excuse for what Russia is doing now? Do you believe it would be ok for your spouse to cheat on you because their parents cheated on each other…? What kind of idiocy is that?
America didn’t want to tangle in WW1. American people don’t tend to like wars. Americans tend to live good and relatively easy lives. Most of us don’t want to fight or die when we could be at a beach or having some good food or spending time at home.