America be like

It's quite an interesting situation to look at as an observer - to me, the idea of a country where practially anyone and everyone can have a gun is a terrifying idea, and I don't know what I would do without free healthcare in my life. (This is not an insult to America - just an outsider view)

Ah different strokes really. But remember, that free health care you have isn't really free. It's paid for in taxes. America's healthcare system is a giant clusterfuck that definitely needs to be rebooted. I have no idea how, but our current attempt seems to be falling short.

I've always been surprised at how America's healthcare system works (or, rather, doesn't in some cases). I just can't really imagine living in a situation where I broke a bone or damaged myself in some way but had to think about whether I could afford to have it fixed before I went to hospital. I remember I watched a video in school in PSHE about an American man who had nail-gunned his own knee (by accident!) but couldn't afford the healthcare so had to deal with it himself, leaving him with a permanent limp, pain and disability - I was shocked that in a country seemingly as developed as the USA had a system that allowed this. But didn't Obama recently attempt to reboot it with 'Obamacare', when it became a choice between free healthcare and taxes OR no taxes but costly healthcare? (Sorry if I'm misunderstanding American politics :) )

He did try to fix it, but so far it's failing miserably. The gov run website doesn't work. Insurance companies have cancelled plans and create NEW plans that cover less and they're charging more than before for a TON of people. It's really appalling and disappointing to see how much our government is failing us right now.

Oh blimey, that IS in quite a state! I'm sorry you're having to rely on such a poor system - hopefully someone or something will happen to help change the situation for the better. At least there are some signs of progress, albeit if they're failed attempts, because at least that shows the country's moving in the right direction.

Americans don't trust their own government turning on them at any time. That's why we want guns

What would the guns be for if the government were to turn on them? And what would be seen as the government turning on the people? I've seen someone below use Hitler as an example for someone who supported no guns, but I can't really see America following that path... What I've been able to pick up (from this post, news, etc.) is that Americans don't seem to trust their government much for being FOR the people; understanding the American government has made me appreciate my own more - it may not always be great, and some of its practices are flawed, but at least it IS focused towards the public.

Arent you the government too? GTFO spy. And in a country with social services like public schools and food stamps it just seems natural to me that health care would be included. I remember being in a dentists chair once and while the dentist had her drill in my mouth, a nurse walked in and said out loud,"Only fill that cavity, his insurance wont cover anything else." Two months later my teeth are still loose possibly due to developing gum disease and my asthma medication I take daily to make my lungs function normally is about to run out. Its disgusting the way some people are affected by this countries health care system. Yes it will be expensive, but so are many other of our social services. Many people against Universal health care like to neglect the fact the US spent 682 billion dollars on its military budget in 2012 alone. Is money spent occupying other cointries soil really worth more than ensuring health care for all American citizens?

This is more the attitude that I thought would be the prevailing one, but it's so interesting as an observer that it really isn't. Again no judgement, it's just super interesting as someone from a country that gives all citizens access to healthcare and has restricted gun laws. I guess I've been taking it for granted really

Specialagent Think about guns this way. If the government knows the people have nothing to do to stop them they can get away with whatever they want. And to what you said about Hitler this nation can turn just like Germany did. I am sure people said the exact same thing before hitler took over

I find it a highly improbable notion that the American government will ever evolve to function in a way that involves gun battles between officials and the public - in a country developed as America, this would not be allowed to happen as other nations would step in. And it wasn't the absence of guns amongst the German public that led to Hitler's ascension to power - there's a whole myriad of causes, many foreign and unconnected to Germany; such was Hitler's social control that, as he rose to power, few of the German public would have wanted to stop him with guns (should they have them) because they voted him and the Nazi Party in, remember. They may've changed their minds when his policies became war-mongering, but by then his army was so loyal and strong that no amount of guns amongst the German public would have enabled the people to overthrow his regime. There are many nations today that employ gun control - like the UK - where there is no risk of 'another Hitler regime'.

Just want to point out some inconsistencies in what you said. You can't imagine the American government pulling a "Germany" because its such a developed country....uh do you think Germany was a 3rd world country 60 years ago or something? "other nations would step in"....hm kinda like the other nations of the world eventually stepped in for WW2? Hitler was so charismatic, he rose to leader of the country and most of the public wouldnt want to stop him with guns...hmm that doesn't sound like any leader today right? A charismatic leader that wants change and everything they do is best for the Ameri...I mean German people. They might have changed their minds after war started but it was too late....let me emphasize that bit IT WAS TOO LATE.......Do you really not understand why some Americans have serious problems with this?

As to the "free" healthcare bit. Let me just give you a little example. Person A has a good job, they make $50,000 a year, have insurance, have a mortgage, bills, etc. Wife, 2 kids, the typical Middle class American. Now we have person B, this person doesn't work at all, her husband works on and off on small jobs, but nothing permanent, has a brand new car, lives in a house about the same size as person A, yet its "low income" housing so they pay under 100 bucks a month for it, free utilities, free food through WIC/food stamps, has 6 kids (you know for the benefits from the government, its more profitable to have another kid than get a job, and since neither of them work there is plenty of time for making another baby!).
Now, person A and person B both break their collar bones at about the same time (completely different accidents, but same injury and time of year) Person A goes to the hospital because they have insurance, they are treated, given a bit of pain medication and told

told they should probably just let it heal on its own as surgery can make it heal faster, but they'd have a metal plate in their shoulder which can sometimes cause problems. Person A chooses to let it heal on its own and goes home with a sling and told not to move it. Person B, since they have no insurance, goes straight to the ER (because its free, plus their is no waiting around for them) they get seen to, get the same X Rays, and are then told the same answers. Either have surgery or let it heal on its own. They elect to have surgery even though its normally more expensive, end up going through a few months of physical therapy afterwards (Person A decided not to do PT because it wasn't covered on their insurance and thus they'd have been paying even more).
After all is said and done, person A gets a bill for about $4,000. Person B however.....pays about $100 out of pocket.....THIS is what so much of our tax dollars goes to. Hard to believe people don't want taxes even higher, eh?

I definitely DO understand why some Americans disagree with their government, but I was discussing the flaws of the argument that guns would one day be necessary to resolve disputes between said government and the public. I am well aware that Germany was a well-developed country at the time - in fact, it was well on its way to equalling the British Empire (arguably the most powerful force at the time) concerning weaponry (here I reference the Arm's Race, specifically the Dreadnoughts which were a focus) - but, unlike now, the different countries and empires across the world were a lot more competitive and self-obsessed in the build up to WWII, willing to ignore the plight of other nations while they focussed on furthering themselves. This is no longer the case, with the more developed countries (i.e USA, UK, Germany, Sweden, France) sending billions in currency, supplies and aid to help others around the world. As to the involvement of other countries – prior to the start of Second

World War, there was no real network of international support. It was only at the end of the First World War, at the Paris Peace Conferences in 1919 when Germany signed the Treaty of Versailles, that the League of Nations was created (an idea of American president Woodrow Wilson). This was supposed to create such a network – one that would avoid another war and the horrific atrocities that came with it; at the beginning the League was successful (see the Aaland Islands incident). However, over the next few decades it deteriorated (due mainly to the Manchurian and Abyssinian Crises), leaving international relations in an even worse state than before the League’s creation. It was because of THIS attempt and subsequent failure that the international response to Germany was mixed and confused – countries had to revert to old allies after being so let down by those who had promised - yet failed - to help them (the League of Nations). And the argument that Hitler was so charismatic that no

one would want to stop him? That is true – but the same argument could be made against any politician currently holding the public’s favour today. Also, the circumstances within 1930s Europe were extreme, especially in Germany where millions were starving, so the people were far more willing to elect more extremist candidates for they hoped their more radical ideas would bring change. While America is suffering from the recession, it is nowhere near the conditions prior to the outbreak of the Second World War. So to answer your question: yes, I do understand why some Americans disagree with their government, but that was not what I was exploring in my previous comment. I was discussing the issue of whether gun ownership would have allowed the German people to stop Hitler, but you were arguing as to whether or not Obama will become the ‘next Hitler’, with his government acting as his Third Reich in a war he set about causing.

Furthermore, in relation to the free healthcare: I have already agreed with a previous commenter that the American healthcare system appears flawed at a fundamental level, with your example evidencing this. I have said before that I am in a country where the National Health Service is both free and (for the most part, there are still some flaws, but not to an American extent) working well. Yes, it is paid for through taxes, but it is worth it. I do not think the problem is in the theory – I think, from what I understand of the American situation, the healthcare system in the USA would just put it into practice in a defective way. Therefore, again, I can clearly see why people are upset with their government.