@garlog Simply put, I don't want children to suffer because they were born to irresponsible/unready parents, and even though it sounds brutal, I believe that "death" (which is at the early stages when abortion is legal more like getting rid of a few cells, but anyway we already discussed that) is better than a forced birth which will a) make the parents' life shitty because it's a huge change of their plans, b) make the potential child's life shitty because it will live its life being told it was unwanted and it ruined the parents' life. I wouldn't really drag human rights into it because those are gained by being born.
@chu a lot of people downvote garlog and upvote whomever disagrees/leads a discussion with him simply because it's garlog. Don't get me wrong, I respect him because he often induces critical thinking, but most people don't feel that way because they prefer not to think.

Just messin with ya ;D

Oh, no no no. My wording is just clumsy. I'm saying that by banning abortions, we induce this kind of behaviour in people who might under current conditions later actually become good parents. If they're not ready for a child, we shouldn't force them, because their not being ready is what makes the child suffer.

No offense but I thought those were supposed to be funny.

Ehh, that's what we've been doing in our country. I know that Sweden and Germany have some problems with it, what bothers me is that they don't learn from other countries just because they think they're more progressive by doing what you described. We can agree on that, Merkel needs to get her shit together.

This wasn't about success at all, it was you who brought that up, and in fact I've been trying to explain that it's not about being wealthy and successful. My primary concern was the well-being of the child, which is combined in many factors, the most important of which is how accepted it is in the family. Wealth and influence don't play such a big role, what's important is that the child isn't hated only because it was born, which is a situation that might arise quite often if we force all pregnancies to carry on. I know you said you included that in "bad living situation", but I think poverty and bad family environment are just two very different things and smashing them together may result in miscommunication. There are rich people who are bad parents and there are poor people who are good parents.
No statistics, actually assumptions, which are however based on studies about the influence of environment on psychological development of a child.

Nah, I was just saying that bombing civilians is not the way to go. And that Russia is NOT known for being careful with their weapons, so those "rare occurences" are not that rare. Isis leaders are a bunch of madmen, of course they need to be destroyed, but instead of going on a killing spree we should try to save whomever we can. Besides, have you even read guest's comment? If anyone's head is filled with propaganda, it's theirs. "Betrayed by our leaders", that's what some people say as a reaction to refugees, because for them every refugee is a terrorist. "Russia is the only one doing something", yeah, last time Russia saved someone they took them over right afterwards. But hey, maybe I'm biased because my country was one of the most fucked up during both WWII and the Cold War. Leaders change, but unfortunately Russia has always had this kind of "leader cult" mentality, which can be seen even on Putin.

Soooo you were freaking out about it as a troll? Okay...

Propaganda? Are you serious? I'm literally saying we should fight against propaganda with education. And yes, killing the leaders of Isis is indeed necessary as they're the ones doing the recruiting and brainwashing. But what do you do afterwards, just leave the civilians to rot in a decaying state? You say my head is filled with propaganda but you clearly don't have even a notion of what to do once the fighting is done. In my opinion, sending peace troops and humanitarian help after getting rid of the Isis troops is the way to go. Help the people slowly retake their own minds by showing them we're not killers, but helpers. But hey, education is propaganda, right? Seriously, my thoughts are inspired by Malala, and while she's publicly adored, I'm being bashed. It's almost like you want a full scale war. And while I'm against the policy of appeasement (we know what it did in the past, don't we), engaging in a conflict then leaving civilians to sort it out for themselves is bull.

I know, right? I think they look much better than the cutoff shorts.

No, you need to pick up some other newspaper than a tabloid filled with muslim-hating articles. The media is making this crisis seem far worse than it is. Isis is a threat, but it's a threat that can't be resolved by bombing cities. If you do what Russia does and just mindlessly attack with all your weapons, you'll convince Middle Eastern civilians, who are already being misinformed and brainwashed into thinking the West is bad, into actively joining the fight, because you fucking bombarded their city and thus convinced them that you are indeed the bad bully. The way to get rid of terrorism is education, and while it may be more difficult to achieve now, it will prove more effective than just sending soldiers and weapons over there. The whole "best defense is a good offense" thing is bullshit. The best defense at this point is gun control, fighting against the weapons black market, and strict border control. Even suspending the Schengen space temporarily would be better than bombs.

First of all, I find it ironic how you try to call bs on me sharing my experience with guys who literally told me to fuck off after they learnt I'm taken, but are 100% willing to believe that girls say "I have a bf" just because they feel like everybody wants them. Sure, they exist, but you must've been living under a rock if you legit don't know about Nice Guy syndrome.
Secondly, I did write "most guys aren't like that". That means that most aren't, but some are.
In conclusion, assholes exist and you're just being funny if you don't believe me when I say guys can be assholes too, as well as girls obviously.

We couldn't really do that, because when a child is born, it already has basic human rights. CFS/CPS are in my opinion needed because a family can get into a bad situation throughout the child's life, not just before it's born. I see your point though, it's just that if abortions were illegal, on a million forced births there would be maybe one successful person and thousands of criminals, junkies, or just people who abuse others because they've been abused and they just think that's how it works. I don't know if we should take the chance just because that successful person might invent something cool. There are also cases of pregnancy caused by rape or a child with some rare genetic disease that would make its life hell, but I think you'll agree with me that abortions should be done in those cases as they're quite extreme.

I'm pretty sure this happened by the owner noticing her dog stretches in a funny way and taking a picture of it one time. There's tons of funny stuff dogs do, and each dog does his/her unique funny stuff, this is why they're so popular, those lil' goofs.

Indeed.

...do what? The dog's just leaning against a pillar, possibly to stretch or just because some dogs are goofy like that. What's wrong with it?

Yeah, this all is debatable and a matter of opinions. I guess I'm just not as optimistic about this as others when it comes to human potential. I believe the environment and upbringing play a lot bigger role in a person's life than the potential that's coded in their genes. And okay, I see what you mean by the "rising from poverty" thing. There are indeed plenty of people who grew up poor but later became successful. But I was talking about the family environment in itself, not whether the family is high class or not. There are parents who despite their not so well paid job give the best education and moral values they can to their children. However, if you forced every "accident" to be born, its parents would probably not create a safe environment for it. They might even blame it for "ruining their lives", even though we all know it's them who should've been more responsible.

True dat. They try to hide behind the 19th century definition, but we all know what 3rd wave feminism has become.