I'm not saying what happened isn't bad but that's part of the dangers you face when you become a cop. It's different from the civilian being killed situation because as a civilian you're supposed to be able to trust cops and be protected by them. Not think. "I hope they don't kill me. Better watch my back"
Again. It's part of the job discriptipn when you become a cop. Or at least it should be known that it could happen. When a police dies its seen as dieing in the line of duty. Not being murdered in cold blood
Actually looked up the case... a couple notes, he also shot 4 other people (3 of those not cops). The cops were off duty. And here's the kicker for me, the guy plead not guilty... I don't think the cop from Ferguson ever said he didn't shoot the guy(who was, from all given evidence, a danger to his well-being). Points aside, you don't see white people tearing down Akron.
No matter what you say you can't change what I say and make it wrong. It's simple logic if you could understand it.
Cop- on duty OR off duty. They should know what they get themselves into. If the cop was smart he'd have been on his gaurd. It's tragic that he died but that's a possibility when it comes to the job. Died in the line of duty.
The guy that killed the cop and others- it's not the same case as a cop killing a civilian. A cop is supposed to keep order and protect people. Not kill them unless under appropriate circumstances. They should be trying to subdue the person instead of going for the kill. A civilian doing the killing isn't the same because while we should hope that they wouldn't hurt anyone. They in no way asked to be given a position of power or asked to protect civilians. While its not right for them to hurt people. They didn't take an oath to serve and protect and then turn their backs on it and kill someone. And the cop may not have plead guilty but he -
Believed he took appropriate action in shooting and killing the man instead of trying to subdue him. Which is just as bad as pleading innocent when it's obvious what happened. Take aplenty to think about all I've said. Let it process.
I'm the wrong person to argue with. It's not a smart idea
Hahahaha you're hilarious to debate/discuss with.
There is no where in the oath that says, "hey now that you're a cop, expect to be killed even off duty." My brother shouldn't have to fear for his life at a pub. There's no way you can justify a cop killing as being less impactful then a PROVEN INNOCENT self defense killing. If someone is going for a gun and I'm not sure if I can take him down before it happens, believe I'll shoot at him, and in the heat of the moment(which is considered a crime of passion and actually dismissable) I'm not stressing about if I can shoot him in the knee or not.
Relax with the outbursts... it's healthy to debate, no-one is calling you wrong, I'm telling you why I think you're wrong... doesn't mean I'm right or vice versa. Chill
It shouldn't have to be said. There's obviously people who don't like cops and some people would go far enough to attack and or kill them. It's something that should just be known and make people at least somewhat cautious. A cop killing is just as wrong as a civilian killing. If it was an open and shut case proving him innocent than why did it take so long to get the verdict. People wouldn't be rioting. Sure some people would be angry but not to the point of rioting. Even then the rioting is also due to the different videos of police brutality
Definitely let's avoid the riot topic, burning down a store of someone not even involved in the case isn't making any type of point or progress.
In our court system it has to be a unanimous decision. It's not majority rules. The majority has to convince the rest(through discussions like this) that they're right. You have to be open minded and know they have to be guilty without a reason of doubt.
There is a lot more good cops then bad cops, yet one bad cop gets caught and people automatically turn on the good ones too. A cop stops a black man, he doesn't automatically distrust every black man he meets afterwards does he?
Sorry to jump around like this, but the fact that winebrenner was a cop was erroneous in this situation, this guy opened fire on 5 people, two coincidentally were cops and one of those died. When the man was caught he wasn't shot down or anything like that.
If I'm a cop and am dressed down at a McDonald's and get shot, no-one could say it was part of -
Sparkelz I want to share your comments with all my LE friends and see what they think. By your reasoning it is ok to punch Mike Tyson and throw Duane Johnson through a table when you see them at a local steakhouse because they should have seen it coming.
Wait wait wait mrrsparklez you're saying that the cop (off duty) should have gone to a fundraiser expecting to be shot by a civilian because that's part of his job? No. Once you're off duty, you're off duty. Cops are still civilians and still have the same rights as everyone else. This case isn't the same as the Ferguson one, you're correct there, because this murder is far worse. Brown posed a threat to the cop that shot him, having had reason to be shot. In this case, this officer was shot for no apparent reason. Your reasoning is ridiculous.
You completely pulled the Ferguson riots out of context and expect us to take this as a convincing argument. First of all; the black man that shot him was most likely a criminal with a record, this was not the case with Mike Brown. Second of all, the black man that shot him also most likely got jail time for the murder, again not the case with Mike Brown.
Today cops seems to think it's okay to shoot unarmed black minors, but it's not. They lie about the details, the jury favours the white man, and he ends up walking free instead of going to jail for murder. And the sad thruth is, if he had a different skin colour, he would go to jail for murder.
Update; the black man that shot him was a murderer. Kenan Ivery, brought in once for murder, five times for assault. The case of Ferguson that you were referencing to was a cop shooting an unarmed civilian, not a murderer shooting a cop.
Have you seen that he autopsy report?
Brown was shot at extremely close range in his hand.
An eye witness, Brown's friend, says that the officer tried to run them down before he started shooting from his car.
Wilson says that Mike cornered him in his car and tried to take his gun.
Wilson is not a big man. Mike is.
Wilson said that he misfired twice while they were struggling, explaining the hole in Mike's hand. When Mike backed up , Wilson held his fire until it looked like Mike was about to rush him.
Mike's freind gave no mention of how a bullet went through Mike's hand.
The court found Wilson innocent after reviewing all the evidence. A jury, I might add, that was composed of various races.
You can accuse the white man of lying all you want, but the fact is, Mike's freind is more inclined to lie, and Wilson was found innocent DESPITE numerous lynce mobs threatening and inciting violence.
THANK YOU famousone! Like yeah Wilson maybe should have faced jail time but he wasn't a heartless killer he was trying to do his job and many people don't know this but MIKE AND HIS FRIEND HAD ROBBED A STORE RIGHT BEFORE THEIR CONFRONTATION WITH WILSON. Wilson recognized their descriptions and was trying to block them off the road as he called for back up. Then Mike AND Wilson got in a fight which resulted in Mike trying to take Wilson's gun and Wilson shooting him. (also Mike has had a long history of criminal record)
Get your facts right. No offense, but there were six bullets in Brown's body, and Wilson said he was shooting to kill. He aimed at the face. And the cop did not know about Brown (WHO MAY HAVE, not for certain) have robbing a convenience store.
@famousone; lie lie lie. If you read the statement made by Dorian Johnson (Mike's friend) it clearly says Mike did not try to reach for the gun. I don't know where you got this information, or that you just made it up, but the fact remains that Wilson murdered an innocent child. And, because he's white, and Brown was black, he walks. It's a fucking injustice and everyone has a right to be angry.
Link to the wikipedia article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown#Dorian_Johnson
I honestly can't believe you guys are downvoting me instead of looking up the facts yourself. Wilson made it all up to protect himself, and all the testimonals point to murder. Every single statement made in that court case (expect Wilson's of course) mostly aligns with Dorians testimony, and not Wilsons. It might be hard to accept, but this is the truth. The American justice system is racist, and the African American people of the United states deserve justice, before another child shot and this tragedy repeats itself all over again.
Yes, actually, it does because Mike was shot from the back in his right arm. It does say on the Wikipedia page that the autopsie aligns with Wilson's account, But he still shot Brown in the front four times, even when he was already done for. It was murder. Besides, not all the testimonials were Mike's friends. Many people were innocent bystanders/construction workers. Like I said, read the evidence yourself and make your own judgement call, but don't downvote me just because you've got your mind set on an opinion without any proof/good reason.
Because whites aren't oppressed. And the Ferguson case is a TOTALLY different case. It isn't just about what races kill other races, and you thinking that shows how ignorant and uneducated you are.
the idea is that this could be interpreted as people thinking one life isn't as important as another. just because whites aren't oppressed that doesn't mean that it's not as bad to kill them as it is to kill a person of colour. Everybody's life is important regardless of colour of skin
Also, a BLACK 12 YEAR OLD was SHOT DEAD by the POLICE in a FREAKING PLAYGROUND for having a toy gun! Surrounded by other kids! He was reported as being around 20. The message that it was a toy gun never reached the police and they shot him almost as soon as they got there. I'm not saying Justin's death is ok, it's tragic. But if this post is meant to be about racism, get yourself straight
That's true what those police did were wrong but we shouldn't judge a group of badly trained police and make it effect our overall opinion of them. Just like a group of badly behaved people of certain races,genders or whatever makes us different shouldn't effect our overall opinion of them
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· 10 years ago
That's not the whole truth of the situation, illflyifiwantto.
The gun looked real (and it was only ever reported that it *might* be fake); the kid looked much older than his age; they didn't just shoot him "as soon as they got there"; to name but a few.
I wish people wouldn't post this kind of stuff. This is FUNsubstance for a reason, ya' know... Getting into pointless arguments with somebody of the opposite opinion is idiotic, and no fun.
Not saying we shouldn't honor and acknowledge his death--because we should-- I just don't want the mention of his death to be used to spur arguments. We should focus on the fact that he's dead and give a moment of silence for that, not focus on the situation in which he died for other reasons. It's almost a little disrespectful to use his death like that really, in my opinion. I DONT want to start an argument though. I want that to be crystal clear. I don't want to follow in the footsteps of the rest of the thread.
I don't think this argument is pointless at all. I think it's important that we discuss this here because we represent the general public and other people that come here can see our opinions and reactions to events that are happening around us. I've come to appreciate how Funsubstance users all have different opinions and know how to back them up intelligently. (most of the time at least)
I honestly find reading all this exciting and fun... Get to see difference in opinions, in-depth debates and children acting like children. Funsubstance is the appropriate name for the site, people's definition of fun is the issue.
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· 10 years ago
to all you lawyers out there without a law degree...you weren't there. There is video footage of Brown being aggressive. None of you were there and you know absolutely nothing that happened. I believe, based on the evidence...NOT my emotions, the shooting was justified.
i wonder if the cop was armed too. i also wonder if some how the the cop killer was sworn to protect and defend and uphold the law. i also have to wonder if the cop killer was at least indicted if not put in jail for his act.
MY buddy had a really interesting idea, what if every police officer in America went on strike just to show everyone what it's like to live in a society without them...
People disagree on the justification of a white officer shooting a black man who was trying to get his gun. OK, apparently we're all bound to disagree. But, how does killing some white cop at random balance things out? It looks like the people who insist on drawing lines are drawing them between blacks and white cops, not noticing that they are more likely to kill a good white cop than a bad one. Then, if someone else decided to adopt that logic, he/she would be justified in killing any black person to "balance things out." How can this make sense to anybody? How can anyone equate a situation where a white police officer may have made a wrong split-second decision and a situation where you execute someone who had nothing to do with that but shares the skin color of officer who *may* have made that mistake?
They say racist crimes are hate crimes, shouldn't every crime be a hate crime? It shouldn't matter if its 2 white people killing each other or 2 black people. We say we're all equal but calling a crime a hate crime cos of colour treats the crime differently from the start defeating the entire object of equality.
Unfortunately, everyone getting along had some disturbing implications coming with it.
And while this IS in fact, Funsubstance, it is still a form of social media, and people want to have discussions like this to prove a point.
P.S., your English is very good. I would think it to be your first language if you hadn't pointed out that it wasn't.
Thank you for the compliment :-)
And I know, discussions are a good thing. It's a way to share ideas and (as you already pointed out) to prove a point, but in discussions involving racism it always ends with a fight. And it is not that weird, considering the fact that racism is a sore point for a lot of people. But at the moment there's this discussion in my country (the Netherlands), about 'Zwarte Piet'. People are arguing a lot and it is not even a discussion anymore. It has escalated so far, that some people are even receiving death threads. I just hope that even thought there is a discussion here on Funsubstance, people don't start hating on eachother, because that would be too bad.
Yeah.
A lot of these discussions can degenerate into mindless fights, and it's good to be vigilant and prevent these fights.
However, until it does happen on this site, we'll just have to trust that most of us are too mature to let that happen.
SOME places would be a better place. here in the UK, we have barely any issues with the police- we don't usually have guns, they don't usually use guns, end of. In America the use of guns just seems to be the default reaction for if someone's being threatened. i'm not saying it's all the fault of having easy access to guns- but by god does it make up a huge part when half the people have no clue when to fucking use them
No riots? Well thats because THERE IS NO FUCKING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION OF WHITE PEOPLE IN THE USA. Anyony who thinks differently is just a whiny fucking idiot who needs to get a fucking clue.
You want to hear a true story?
Well, a 13-year-old black boy named Darius was accused of stealing his 83-year-old white neighbour's TV. Darius had bee out on his houses' porch with his mother when his neighbour fired two shots in Darius' chest with a shotgun. Darius died in front of his own mother.
So stop freaking EXCUSING MURDER. THERE IS NOTHING GOOD ABOUT KILLING ANOTHER PERSON. NOTHING.
Especially if you have a gun and they have nothing but hope that you will take mercy on them.
THINK. THINK. THINK.
Again, we are not saying that it is good that Brown was killed. We are saying that he was killed in self defense, in which 12 random people all synonymously agree upon after reviewing the evidence...
Cop- on duty OR off duty. They should know what they get themselves into. If the cop was smart he'd have been on his gaurd. It's tragic that he died but that's a possibility when it comes to the job. Died in the line of duty.
The guy that killed the cop and others- it's not the same case as a cop killing a civilian. A cop is supposed to keep order and protect people. Not kill them unless under appropriate circumstances. They should be trying to subdue the person instead of going for the kill. A civilian doing the killing isn't the same because while we should hope that they wouldn't hurt anyone. They in no way asked to be given a position of power or asked to protect civilians. While its not right for them to hurt people. They didn't take an oath to serve and protect and then turn their backs on it and kill someone. And the cop may not have plead guilty but he -
I'm the wrong person to argue with. It's not a smart idea
There is no where in the oath that says, "hey now that you're a cop, expect to be killed even off duty." My brother shouldn't have to fear for his life at a pub. There's no way you can justify a cop killing as being less impactful then a PROVEN INNOCENT self defense killing. If someone is going for a gun and I'm not sure if I can take him down before it happens, believe I'll shoot at him, and in the heat of the moment(which is considered a crime of passion and actually dismissable) I'm not stressing about if I can shoot him in the knee or not.
Relax with the outbursts... it's healthy to debate, no-one is calling you wrong, I'm telling you why I think you're wrong... doesn't mean I'm right or vice versa. Chill
In our court system it has to be a unanimous decision. It's not majority rules. The majority has to convince the rest(through discussions like this) that they're right. You have to be open minded and know they have to be guilty without a reason of doubt.
There is a lot more good cops then bad cops, yet one bad cop gets caught and people automatically turn on the good ones too. A cop stops a black man, he doesn't automatically distrust every black man he meets afterwards does he?
Sorry to jump around like this, but the fact that winebrenner was a cop was erroneous in this situation, this guy opened fire on 5 people, two coincidentally were cops and one of those died. When the man was caught he wasn't shot down or anything like that.
If I'm a cop and am dressed down at a McDonald's and get shot, no-one could say it was part of -
Today cops seems to think it's okay to shoot unarmed black minors, but it's not. They lie about the details, the jury favours the white man, and he ends up walking free instead of going to jail for murder. And the sad thruth is, if he had a different skin colour, he would go to jail for murder.
Brown was shot at extremely close range in his hand.
An eye witness, Brown's friend, says that the officer tried to run them down before he started shooting from his car.
Wilson says that Mike cornered him in his car and tried to take his gun.
Wilson is not a big man. Mike is.
Wilson said that he misfired twice while they were struggling, explaining the hole in Mike's hand. When Mike backed up , Wilson held his fire until it looked like Mike was about to rush him.
Mike's freind gave no mention of how a bullet went through Mike's hand.
The court found Wilson innocent after reviewing all the evidence. A jury, I might add, that was composed of various races.
You can accuse the white man of lying all you want, but the fact is, Mike's freind is more inclined to lie, and Wilson was found innocent DESPITE numerous lynce mobs threatening and inciting violence.
Link to the wikipedia article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown#Dorian_Johnson
I for one know how important the cops are.
And while this IS in fact, Funsubstance, it is still a form of social media, and people want to have discussions like this to prove a point.
P.S., your English is very good. I would think it to be your first language if you hadn't pointed out that it wasn't.
And I know, discussions are a good thing. It's a way to share ideas and (as you already pointed out) to prove a point, but in discussions involving racism it always ends with a fight. And it is not that weird, considering the fact that racism is a sore point for a lot of people. But at the moment there's this discussion in my country (the Netherlands), about 'Zwarte Piet'. People are arguing a lot and it is not even a discussion anymore. It has escalated so far, that some people are even receiving death threads. I just hope that even thought there is a discussion here on Funsubstance, people don't start hating on eachother, because that would be too bad.
A lot of these discussions can degenerate into mindless fights, and it's good to be vigilant and prevent these fights.
However, until it does happen on this site, we'll just have to trust that most of us are too mature to let that happen.
Well, a 13-year-old black boy named Darius was accused of stealing his 83-year-old white neighbour's TV. Darius had bee out on his houses' porch with his mother when his neighbour fired two shots in Darius' chest with a shotgun. Darius died in front of his own mother.
So stop freaking EXCUSING MURDER. THERE IS NOTHING GOOD ABOUT KILLING ANOTHER PERSON. NOTHING.
Especially if you have a gun and they have nothing but hope that you will take mercy on them.
THINK. THINK. THINK.