I really, really wish the PRO-LIFE people would consider this side of their cause. Planned Parenthood does far more prenatal and after care, as well as birth control and STD testing for rape victims that are too scared to see their regular doctors, than abortions. Attacking the entity as a whole, as opposed to a single medical practice, is just not going to be effective anyway.
They will whether they should or not. My issue is with the fact that they blatantly ignore all the other services that are provided and harass every person that steps through the doors without acknowledging the public health aspect.
Well hitler was a decent artist, but we don't give a shit about his drawing. Cause he killed millions of innocents. It doesn't matter all the good stuff you do, murder is murder and if those 90,000 babies that they murdered this year had been born and grown up, God only knows the stuff they could have accomplished!
"we don't give a shit about his drawing."
Hitler's art was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Also I don't know what you consider "giving a shit" but his work sells for quite a bit.
"murder is murder"
How astute of you.
"if those 90,000 babies that they murdered this year had been born and grown up, God only knows the stuff they could have accomplished! "
Or they could have become prostitutes and drug dealers. That's not a particularly compelling argument.
I really this hope this doesn't turn into a huge discussion or fight. I'm just glad there was another point of view to consider and open up my horizons and have this shut my mouth and think and analyze before saying my opinion.
ALSO
If this leads to a discussion, i hope for the love of this place and my fellow funsubbers that it's an...insult free environment where ppl aren't afraid to voice out loud their thoughts and, if they have someone disagree, they won't get mad and instead act mature.
I hope this isn't asking for much.
There are always two sides to a given situation, and you'll inevitably run into q few obnoxious jerks who have to be hostile to state an opinion.I've kept fairly quiet here lately for just that reason, but this struck a nerve so I figured I'd throw in my stance. I genuinely respect your statement that you are going to think and analyze before automatically reacting! That takes a very thoughtful and open-minded person.
Thank you, i appreciate you comment. I'm by no means perfect, but you go thru life seeing things and understand that it's important to open your eyes and mind to all possibilities. I just want this site to be a place where we can be mature and friendly and discuss important or sensitive topics, if the situation calls for it.
4Reply
deleted
· 8 years ago
I posted this because I got a lot of hell from some pro-life protesters last week when I went to the clinic for birth control. When I shot back and told them I was there for the pill they insinuated that I was a slut. I take the pill to regulate my cycle and keep my acne manageable. And only a small portion of their services are abortions, its mostly STD testing/treatment and contraceptives
Sorry, meant to say "sharing your experience". Too often we here old, white men tell young women what they should be doing with their bodies and hearing it come from a female's perspective is powerful. Again, thank you.
I'm conservative, Roman Catholic, and even I see the merit in many I'd the archives Planned Parenthood provides.
I am against its service of abortion,as well as the practice of it for very personal reasons, but I believe that it's other services are invaluable and should be kept and maintained. The moniker of "evil" many have placed on it is narrow and narrow-minded in its scope, and misses a bigger picture
24
deleted
· 8 years ago
Does everybody see? This individual is pro-life, yet s/he accepts that the other work done is still not evil and is cordial to the pro-choice people. /This/ is an example of a human who can properly understand a situation and base a opinion on that. Bravo!
I get support from plan parenthood that basically keeps me from going crazy. I was raped when I was 15 and as an 16 year old they are still there for me an my child along with my best friend even when my parents abandoned me because of my choice to keep the baby.
Plan parenthood do so much and I think the people who are going to attack it for one thing they offer should revaluate why the are against it as a whole service.
Sorry for the long opinion but I thought that this needed to be said.
This is why im pro-choice.
.
To put it simply. Abortion fucking sucks. Its sad that they'll never live their lives. Its sad that a couple who cant have kids may not get a baby, and I don't think it should be a form of birth control if you're just getting fucked without a condom or whatever.
.
BUT, that is *my* opinion. People can do what they fucking want. Id rather there be places like that, who care for the women who come in, give them therapy and give them their options than someone sticking a coat hanger up their hohah and doing serious damage to themselves that may prevent them from having kids in the future. That, and it's better than the child landing in the hands of someone who's just going to neglect them.
.
I don't like abortion. I think its sad. I believe adoption is a better option. But you better believe it if one of my friends called me up and told me they were pregnant and were probably going to get an abortion. I'd be by their side in ten seconds flat (cont)
(cont.) To hold their hand and comfort them through the difficult time. I do think Planned Parenthood should tell them the benefits of adoption (if they dont already, I've never been), but in the end. Its the woman's body. You don't know her story. Fuck the protesters.
.
You can hate abortion and be pro-choice, because it saves kids from trying to abort it themselves, and it doesn't effect you if some random person gets one.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
I completely agree. But you know what? Those bitch protestors that fucking spew hate words need to stop. Abortion is awful. But don't make someone feel bad about themselves for your comfort. (this isn't aimed at you amadog19, just sharing my thoughts and agreeing with you.)
The protestors I saw were holding signs with VERY graphic pics of aborted fetuses and miscarriages. In broad daylight. Where children and people who have lost their babies before fullterm can see and be traumatized. I'm pro-choice. I also believe in the right to peaceful protest and free speech. But those pictures man. I can never unsee that. They can protest, but they shouldn't be able to use such insensitive methods
The protesters need to fuck off. Like I said there it is the woman's body. Its her life,not mine. It doesn't effect me directly so ir doesn't matter what they do if they get an abortion. All the protesters are doing is causing the women hurt and accusing them blindly. Glad yall agree with me!
"The protesters need to fuck off."
>they shouldn't be able to express their opinion
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deleted
· 8 years ago
They can definitely express they're opinion, in the form of peaceful protest. Anything other than that pollutes their message. And showing pics of miscarried fetuses also misrepresents their message, as they are not the product of abortion. Like I said, I'm pro-choice, but I also believe everyone has the right to voice their opinion
As far as I know the vast majority of pro-life protests are peaceful, and the fetus pictures aren't necessarily meant to specifically be of abortion, but to show what is being aborted in general.
Have you looked in the news? They will harass women while they're going in blindly. Shoving the graphic signs in their faces. The protesters should be allowed peacefully, kindly, and should be at least ten feet from the entrance so they can't chase people in.
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"What's being aborted in general"
Did you read the post? What about the women who have miscarriages and go in? Could you imagine how a woman who suffered a miscarriage and was going in would feel having a graphic reminder of the loss they had suffered? Its brutal and wrong in general. Plus abortion clincs don't encourage abortions, women (mostly scared teens) will go to extremes. Such as a coat hanger being forced up there which is potentially very dangerous and can cause serious damage to their bodies. The signs should not be allowed.
"They will harass women while they're going in blindly. Shoving the graphic signs in their faces."
In my experience this is not the majority.
"and should be at least ten feet from the entrance"
Is this a law or something?
"Could you imagine how a woman who suffered a miscarriage and was going in would feel having a graphic reminder of the loss they had suffered?"
Sucks for them. But some people feeling bad shouldn't be grounds for banning things.
"Its brutal and wrong in general."
I disagree. Some people being made to feel bad isn't brutal or wrong.
"Plus abortion clincs don't encourage abortions, women (mostly scared teens) will go to extremes."
That's besides the point of the protesters themselves.
"The signs should not be allowed. "
Again, I disagree.
Man idk where to start with you. You're ignorant, plain and fucking simple. And the ten feet thing is used while voting, it's fair and honestly you're an insensitive asshole. Im not going to argue this anymore with you, but you sir are very close minded. And im sorry for that. All comments by you on this post and possibly others will be ignored. Good day.
"You're ignorant, plain and fucking simple."
You're welcome to your opinion.
"the ten feet thing is used while voting,"
I don't understand. Who are you being kept ten feet away from when you vote?
"you're an insensitive asshole."
Again, you're welcome to your opinion.
"Im not going to argue this anymore with you"
That's fine.
"you sir are very close minded."
That's wrong.
"All comments by you on this post and possibly others will be ignored."
That's fine too.
"Good day."
Back at ya.
Pro lifers only care about a life until it's actually born after that they don't give one shit about where that child ends up. Adoption isn't always the better choice and if you think it is please tell that to the 250,000+ children still waiting to be adopted. Sex shouldn't be seen as a crime and women shouldn't have to "just keep there legs closed." If Planned Parenthood "goes under" than there's going to be even more unsafe abortions and poor sexual education. No one is pro abortion they're just pro "it's someone else's body someone else's life and I don't get an opinion in it"
Well, they also provide birth control and testing for STDs and counseling for those who need it. But all pro-lifers see is the fact that they provide abortions.
Oh, no the protesters know. But they only want you to have the baby. Just like people who don't care if you get married unless it's someone of the same sex.
And they assume anyone who goes inside wants to have an abortion so they protest and scream at people. I think I once read of a doctor getting assaulted outside of one.
Abortion is something I would never want to do. That being said, there are situations in which that's the only option. I speak from experience. When you're sixteen and suddenly you become another statistic, something you said you'd never do, but there you are, scared shitless bc you made a mistake. What was the mistake? Opening my legs? A little too late to blame it on that. Stupid rubber? Well kinda late for that too now that it's ripped. And so, you think, ok I'll just take that plan B pill, but then you wonder if you'll even get it, if you can find the time and the resources without getting caught. So you spend three days, scared, numb, hating yourself and even your partner for this. What if i end up pregnant, i can't raise a child, i can't give it what it needs, a home, food, stable life. It's parents are nothing more than two kids caught up in their own youth. Sure itll have love, but a baby doesn't survive only on love. So then you and your partner think...Ok, abortion.
And the idea makes your skin cold and it freezes your heart and suddenly all you can think about is the little baby growing slowly inside of you. Youre all alone in this world with it, and your partner is suddenly cold and distant and you wonder if he's afraid, if he feels as.sick. about it as you do. But there are.alternatives! Give up the baby to a family who needs it. But I cant, because my mother will kick me out, my mother will kill me before I have that baby. And I know that its.wrong but that's all you can think.
I didn't have an abortion. I got lucky and got that pill. But those days are stuck in my mind and I can only assume how awful some of those women must have felt going thru that. Thats all i have to say on this.
7Reply
deleted
· 8 years ago
Okay, here's my view.
I'm pro choice, because besides the fact that rape occurs, there's also the fact that people make mistakes. You've made mistakes, right? Well, what if I told you that one big mistake would cost you months of immobility, several hours of extreme pain, possible injury and/or marks, and years of taking care of a child, as well as having to give thousands of dollars to support this kid, on top of everything else you're doing? The thing is that we have a safe way of averting all that, and not everyone is at a stage where they are ready to support a kid. Or maybe teens or young adults made a bad choice, and now they have to stop all the repercussions from setting in, as they're already busy with school and starting to set up their independent lives. And maybe people want the kid to survive, and that's totally okay! That's brilliant! It's pro- /choice/, not pro- /death/. The choice is stressful and terrible, as you are deciding whether to stop a life from being created-
13
deleted
· 8 years ago
(cont) But some people need to have that choice. I don't want the life of the parent/s and the child/ren to be ruined because of problems such as external affairs (e.g. Schooling, wedlock and divorce) or lack of money to support the family. And according to scientific research on the fetus, the primary systems needed to support life are not made until a certain point, so until then, you're not really killing the kid, because there is none yet. Some people disagree, and that's okay. But remember, sometimes you need Plan B to be there. That's my reasoning, at least. And that's why I'm pro-choice.
I'm from the UK so this may be completely wrong.. but what I think many people in the US don't understand is that Pro-choice isn't anti-life, it's about the choice...
take the recent amazing new law? in the US that allows gay couples to get married in every state, it doesn't mean that two straight same-sex people have to get married, it just gives those who do wish to do so, the freedom to do so, and the right to not be discriminated against for their lives.
If all states allowed free/paid safe abortions, counselling and welfare options, it doesn't mean everyone who is pregnant will suddenly have an abortion. They're not a walk in the sand, and no one wishes to go through something like that, but in some circumstances, it is a choice that should be available.
side note: please go and watch the film 'obvious child'!
Regardless of this sob story, pro-life protesters are definitely one of the more caustic and insipid protest groups out there. They really don't help their cause much at all.
I'm pro-life and I agree with what this says. I just wish they didn't condone and commit the abortions. I'm all for everything that this mother had to go for, but the fact that some of that money she donated went to a baby that was living and helped kill it? Not ok with me. A miscarriage is understandable, I may go as far to say a stillborn, but when it's alive and healthy doesn't sit right with me.
What about a situation where a married woman takes multiple precautions against pregnancy but still gets pregnant and carrying to full term would kill both mother and child? Or when a fetus is found to have congenital defects not compatible with life? I was fortunate to not have to experience the former, but it was a risk I was scared of every time I had sex with my husband (which ultimately ended my marriage, as it were). There are times when a baby is absolutely loved, adored, and wanted, but is either going to be fatal for mother and child or they're going to live minutes or hours before dying a horrific death. That, to me, is not the same as someone using abortion as birth control (which I vehemently oppose).
In my opinion, there should be a thing where they keep a record on how many abortions a person has so if they have a certain amount ( especially in small time frame ) they are told they won't be allowed to get one unless it's a literal life or death situation.
But honestly, science says that conception starts at a certain point so the child isn't biologically alive. But that's also a matter of debate so it isn't your place telling people that they're baby killers when you're not even going to help keep the baby well except if they want an abortion.
You may go as far to say a stillborn? I'm sorry, but what does that mean.
I think it is fair enough that you are pro-life, but whether or not to have a baby should be a choice. I, personally, think that it is better to have an abortion than to bring an unwanted baby into an already overpopulated world. When I was sixteen I was having a rough time, and I made some pretty awful mistakes. One of which was getting pregnant. I was terrified and unprepared. My family was already barely getting by. I never intended on having kids when I was an adult, much less when I was a teenager. So I had 3 choices. I could keep the baby, knowing how I would eventually, through no fault of his/her own, resent him/her. I could give the baby up for adoption, but this planet is already overpopulated, and there are thousands of children looking for a home already. Besides, I wasn't ready to give birth, to go through high shook pregnant. So, yeah, I got an abortion.
(continued)
You might be pro-life, but what happens when it's born? No one cares after that. As long as it lives, right?
I respect your pro-life beliefs, and I get where you're coming from, but please don't make me feel bad for the choices I've made. It's my body, my life, and I believe that woman need to have the right to choose what they do with it. That's why I'm pro-choice.
Also, snugglebutt, I agree that abortion shouldn't be a form if birth control. But there are times (beyond those that are fatal to the mother, child, or both) where abortions are the only choice left.
2
deleted
· 8 years ago
First, let me say thank you to all of you for staying cordial. Second, in my opinion, you are right. Killing a child should not be allowed. But science suggests that the fetus only stops being a bunch of flesh and then starts living at a certain point, so before that point I am completely supportive. After that, I am against it, because you should've noticed it by now and made a choice. That's my view, but I respect yours.
There is no point that science gives that defines when a fetus starts "living". It all depends on the definition of life being used, and that's not really very useful at all. That's why this is still such a divisive issue.
deleted
· 8 years ago
Yeah, I get your point. In my mind, that moment is when the systems required for life are made, such as the heart and brain and all that. For others, it's the moment of conception. For others, it's when the baby comes out.
It's kind of frustrating how bad of a handle we have on the definition of life. Your definition actually brings up a ridiculous technicality in the standard definition of life, where every individual cell in your body is considered alive, and you as a whole human are considered alive, but your individual organs are not.
Fellow Funsubsters - can we all make a pact to ignore every single comment garlog makes? He/she is either a troll or a closed minded, hateful person, angry person. He is a negative and mean on every post I've ever seen. He is entitled to his comments and beliefs, that is correct. But I think we should just ignore him/her.
The Planned Parenthood organization the mom knew no longer exists. Today they sell aborted baby parts. Everything is different. There's no way for people today to support the group that helped the mom in the story many years ago.
Great story. Except Planned Parenthood is selling dead baby body parts and embryos. Go ahead, look it up. There are videos of the CEOs saying how great the money is
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deleted
· 8 years ago
If those embryos can help save another life, then they have had a useful existence. And all the other posters are correct...once the baby is born, who is going to be pro-life for it then. Are they going to adopt the baby? Are they going to help the woman who does not want the baby cope with single parenthood and raising a child they don't want and may learn to hate. There are a lot worse things than death via abortion such as neglect, abuse, etc.
There is no profit being made for the tissue. Planned Parenthood (PP) is reimbursed only for shipping the materials to labs and clinics. What PP is doing is perfectly legal.
Hitler's art was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Also I don't know what you consider "giving a shit" but his work sells for quite a bit.
"murder is murder"
How astute of you.
"if those 90,000 babies that they murdered this year had been born and grown up, God only knows the stuff they could have accomplished! "
Or they could have become prostitutes and drug dealers. That's not a particularly compelling argument.
If this leads to a discussion, i hope for the love of this place and my fellow funsubbers that it's an...insult free environment where ppl aren't afraid to voice out loud their thoughts and, if they have someone disagree, they won't get mad and instead act mature.
I hope this isn't asking for much.
I am against its service of abortion,as well as the practice of it for very personal reasons, but I believe that it's other services are invaluable and should be kept and maintained. The moniker of "evil" many have placed on it is narrow and narrow-minded in its scope, and misses a bigger picture
Plan parenthood do so much and I think the people who are going to attack it for one thing they offer should revaluate why the are against it as a whole service.
Sorry for the long opinion but I thought that this needed to be said.
.
To put it simply. Abortion fucking sucks. Its sad that they'll never live their lives. Its sad that a couple who cant have kids may not get a baby, and I don't think it should be a form of birth control if you're just getting fucked without a condom or whatever.
.
BUT, that is *my* opinion. People can do what they fucking want. Id rather there be places like that, who care for the women who come in, give them therapy and give them their options than someone sticking a coat hanger up their hohah and doing serious damage to themselves that may prevent them from having kids in the future. That, and it's better than the child landing in the hands of someone who's just going to neglect them.
.
I don't like abortion. I think its sad. I believe adoption is a better option. But you better believe it if one of my friends called me up and told me they were pregnant and were probably going to get an abortion. I'd be by their side in ten seconds flat (cont)
.
You can hate abortion and be pro-choice, because it saves kids from trying to abort it themselves, and it doesn't effect you if some random person gets one.
>they shouldn't be able to express their opinion
.
"What's being aborted in general"
Did you read the post? What about the women who have miscarriages and go in? Could you imagine how a woman who suffered a miscarriage and was going in would feel having a graphic reminder of the loss they had suffered? Its brutal and wrong in general. Plus abortion clincs don't encourage abortions, women (mostly scared teens) will go to extremes. Such as a coat hanger being forced up there which is potentially very dangerous and can cause serious damage to their bodies. The signs should not be allowed.
In my experience this is not the majority.
"and should be at least ten feet from the entrance"
Is this a law or something?
"Could you imagine how a woman who suffered a miscarriage and was going in would feel having a graphic reminder of the loss they had suffered?"
Sucks for them. But some people feeling bad shouldn't be grounds for banning things.
"Its brutal and wrong in general."
I disagree. Some people being made to feel bad isn't brutal or wrong.
"Plus abortion clincs don't encourage abortions, women (mostly scared teens) will go to extremes."
That's besides the point of the protesters themselves.
"The signs should not be allowed. "
Again, I disagree.
You're welcome to your opinion.
"the ten feet thing is used while voting,"
I don't understand. Who are you being kept ten feet away from when you vote?
"you're an insensitive asshole."
Again, you're welcome to your opinion.
"Im not going to argue this anymore with you"
That's fine.
"you sir are very close minded."
That's wrong.
"All comments by you on this post and possibly others will be ignored."
That's fine too.
"Good day."
Back at ya.
And they assume anyone who goes inside wants to have an abortion so they protest and scream at people. I think I once read of a doctor getting assaulted outside of one.
I didn't have an abortion. I got lucky and got that pill. But those days are stuck in my mind and I can only assume how awful some of those women must have felt going thru that. Thats all i have to say on this.
I'm pro choice, because besides the fact that rape occurs, there's also the fact that people make mistakes. You've made mistakes, right? Well, what if I told you that one big mistake would cost you months of immobility, several hours of extreme pain, possible injury and/or marks, and years of taking care of a child, as well as having to give thousands of dollars to support this kid, on top of everything else you're doing? The thing is that we have a safe way of averting all that, and not everyone is at a stage where they are ready to support a kid. Or maybe teens or young adults made a bad choice, and now they have to stop all the repercussions from setting in, as they're already busy with school and starting to set up their independent lives. And maybe people want the kid to survive, and that's totally okay! That's brilliant! It's pro- /choice/, not pro- /death/. The choice is stressful and terrible, as you are deciding whether to stop a life from being created-
take the recent amazing new law? in the US that allows gay couples to get married in every state, it doesn't mean that two straight same-sex people have to get married, it just gives those who do wish to do so, the freedom to do so, and the right to not be discriminated against for their lives.
If all states allowed free/paid safe abortions, counselling and welfare options, it doesn't mean everyone who is pregnant will suddenly have an abortion. They're not a walk in the sand, and no one wishes to go through something like that, but in some circumstances, it is a choice that should be available.
side note: please go and watch the film 'obvious child'!
But honestly, science says that conception starts at a certain point so the child isn't biologically alive. But that's also a matter of debate so it isn't your place telling people that they're baby killers when you're not even going to help keep the baby well except if they want an abortion.
I think it is fair enough that you are pro-life, but whether or not to have a baby should be a choice. I, personally, think that it is better to have an abortion than to bring an unwanted baby into an already overpopulated world. When I was sixteen I was having a rough time, and I made some pretty awful mistakes. One of which was getting pregnant. I was terrified and unprepared. My family was already barely getting by. I never intended on having kids when I was an adult, much less when I was a teenager. So I had 3 choices. I could keep the baby, knowing how I would eventually, through no fault of his/her own, resent him/her. I could give the baby up for adoption, but this planet is already overpopulated, and there are thousands of children looking for a home already. Besides, I wasn't ready to give birth, to go through high shook pregnant. So, yeah, I got an abortion.
You might be pro-life, but what happens when it's born? No one cares after that. As long as it lives, right?
I respect your pro-life beliefs, and I get where you're coming from, but please don't make me feel bad for the choices I've made. It's my body, my life, and I believe that woman need to have the right to choose what they do with it. That's why I'm pro-choice.
That's definitely debatable.