It was in a documentary that was played in my school, so I mean,if its alright enough to toss into a documentary, why not a random post in the internet?
1Reply
deleted
· 8 years ago
If I ever bend over to scrape gum off my shoe and miraculously dodge a wrecking ball soaring just over my head, I will still find it in my heart to be annoyed at the fact I stepped in gum.
Except the people that died? You do realize over a thousand people died, and you're ignoring that and saying "god protects all of us" because of the few that survived? Typical religious logic
snowpanther's comment doesn't imply that those thousands that died weren't under God's care...
The idea that God has to protect everybody from every bad thing or else he can't exist is a false dichotomy.
Or, as you might say, "typical atheist logic"
:P
He literally said he protects "all of us." Which isn't true, but for an all powerful being in don't see why he can't. The whole "god has a plan" and "he works in mysterious ways" thing is bullshit, because an all knowing being should be able to easily make things work out the way he wants without anyone getting "harmed" (I say it like that because the word is subjective...) if he do chooses. Also the free will thing is bullshit. He couldnt help those people because that would contradict the free will of other people to kill people? I'm sure those innocent people didn't die of their free will.
My point stands. Just because a God-figure doesn't stop every single bad thing doesn't mean he never does anything at all. Reality very rarely exists in such extreme black-and-white.
And just because you don't like the possibility that people can make their own choices doesn't mean they can't.
Stop trying to make everything so extreme. Truth and beauty is in balance.
...as does my point. I was saying that He doesn't protect us all as @snowpanther said. What makes one person than another? And why doesn't He stop every bad thing? I don't understand why an all powerful being has to allow murder and rape to exist.
You already know the answer to that, as you said before. People have to be able to choose. If evil is an impossibility, freedom to choose is hollow and meaningless. There would be no freedom and no independence. No progress or growth.
Sure, I suppose snowpanther's comment might have been worded better. e.g. "watches over" instead of "protects." But there's no reason to think that God is any less attentive toward someone who dies young.
But why did that evil have to exist in the first place? It wouldn't even be an option if God didn't create it. And I'm not very well versed with the beliefs on the devil (assuming were talking about Christianity here) so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "sin is the Devil's fault." But if God knows everything's that's ever going to happen, and he set everything into motion, then he knowingly indirectly created evil.
If God knowingly created evil
Then that's not a benevolent, kind God like christains portray him. In fact the christain God seems to be a manipulative pyschopathic killer.
For the record, I don't think I'd agree with that comment from snowpanther. I think evil exists naturally. There can't be good if there isn't evil. There can't be choice if there aren't alternatives. Hell (meaning whatever it is taken to mean) exists only because God doesn't force people to live with Him forever if they don't want to.
That's where it starts and ends -- our freedom to choose. Supposing there were alternatives (which may or may not be the case), it is evident that God believes that the potential we have as His children is well worth the price to realize it. And I agree with Him 100% on that.
I don't see why there can't be good without evil. Heaven is supposed to be perfectly good... and there isn't evil there. So that point is invalid. Also, yeah, he let's us "choose" whether or not to be with him... but the only other option is literally never ending agony. Case #1 of God being manipulative. No sane person would choose to not be with God in heaven if they knew he existed and the only alternative is hell. But god makes it extremely hard to believe in him, and if you come to what you think is the logical conclusion of him not existing, you deserve endless toture? Why would god, an all powerful being, communicate with us through the same shitty method that other known false religions used. A method that would be corrupted by imperfect humans. And then blame us for not believing it...
Sorry if I'm ranting, but I really do enjoy discussing religion and would love to hear your view. I'm a former catholic myself and only recently started becoming atheist.
I don't actually agree with the whole "never ending agony" spiel. Honestly I think that doctrine reeks of political manipulation, and I'm sure the concept of hell was greatly exaggerated during the Dark Ages, when Christianity was used as a weapon by godless theocrats to keep people in line.
Besides, mathematically, that doesn't even make sense. If a person's sins are finite, an eternity of punishment would be objectively unfair. And God is always described as being just and merciful.
Further, I don't believe that Judgment is as simple as whether you believe in God, or whether you consider yourself a Christian at the time you die. If it was, it would be a very simple matter and God wouldn't make such a big deal out of telling us that we don't possess the information required to judge others. The fact that He retains judgment for Himself, along with other doctrines and arguments, tells me that God considers every part of our being. Every choice.
I believe He judges us based on what we choose to do with the hand we are dealt, rather than judging us based on whether or not we were lucky enough to be born into the right religion.
The implication of that, IMO, is that if someone's best efforts and most honest investigations lead them to believe in some other god or even no god at all, then so be it. If that's their best effort, they deserve just as much reward for it as anyone does. And where our best efforts didn't lead us to the absolute truth, I believe we will be taught after we die, as mentioned in 1 Peter 4:6. The end result is complete fairness for everyone. I think everyone will have the chance to choose according to knowledge -- not just according to uneven possibilities.
huh. I guess i just assumed you believed in all the Christian teachings, which are mainly what I have problems with. I guess that makes sense. Honestly I'm not even sure if I don't believe in a God at all or if I just don't believe in the Catholic one... my issues with the Catholic Church are probably what drove me to calling myself atheist. Idk, maybe there is a God. Hopefully he won't punish me for not finding the right one. But most popular religions just don't make sense to me.
But if you're always where you're meant to be, does that imply that the people that didn't make it out were "meant" to die in those towers? I'm not sure about this...
It's so deep
The idea that God has to protect everybody from every bad thing or else he can't exist is a false dichotomy.
Or, as you might say, "typical atheist logic"
:P
And just because you don't like the possibility that people can make their own choices doesn't mean they can't.
Stop trying to make everything so extreme. Truth and beauty is in balance.
Sure, I suppose snowpanther's comment might have been worded better. e.g. "watches over" instead of "protects." But there's no reason to think that God is any less attentive toward someone who dies young.
Then that's not a benevolent, kind God like christains portray him. In fact the christain God seems to be a manipulative pyschopathic killer.
That's where it starts and ends -- our freedom to choose. Supposing there were alternatives (which may or may not be the case), it is evident that God believes that the potential we have as His children is well worth the price to realize it. And I agree with Him 100% on that.
Besides, mathematically, that doesn't even make sense. If a person's sins are finite, an eternity of punishment would be objectively unfair. And God is always described as being just and merciful.
Further, I don't believe that Judgment is as simple as whether you believe in God, or whether you consider yourself a Christian at the time you die. If it was, it would be a very simple matter and God wouldn't make such a big deal out of telling us that we don't possess the information required to judge others. The fact that He retains judgment for Himself, along with other doctrines and arguments, tells me that God considers every part of our being. Every choice.
The implication of that, IMO, is that if someone's best efforts and most honest investigations lead them to believe in some other god or even no god at all, then so be it. If that's their best effort, they deserve just as much reward for it as anyone does. And where our best efforts didn't lead us to the absolute truth, I believe we will be taught after we die, as mentioned in 1 Peter 4:6. The end result is complete fairness for everyone. I think everyone will have the chance to choose according to knowledge -- not just according to uneven possibilities.