Religion isn't a valid argument for this. Give me SCIENTIFIC evidence to deny a women to have a SAFE procedure. Let me guess you don't have any. I was raised Catholic but having opinions put on people because of an imaginary person who you can't prove to exist has zero validity with me. It's like the vaccines cause autism thing - no they don't. That paper was false. You are doing so much harm with your scientifically disproved view. This can't be a moral debate because morals vary so much this needs to be something based on facts not feelings.
No one was arguing for religion... and even if they were, who are you to say it isn't a valid argument? Give us proof and evidence that religion's NOT real, and maybe you'll actually be taken seriously.
Because normally everyone AGAINST abortion is because of Religious views. That is everyone who I have ever known. That's why I had to put that there. My case in point is that there are so many religions and moral values, this has to be something based on evidence. If you were Muslim and had the Christians decide your laws (for arguments sake) you would be like why should they be deciding things for me? You see where I'm coming from? Abortion has proven to be safe. It makes no sense to have a safe procedure be harder and harder to have because of morals. Also if you don't agree with abortion for some sort of religious reason, those people shouldn't stop others from having the procedure (which they do). Side story but relevant: where I am, physician assisted dying is legal, but because one of the hospitals is affiliated with a religion (they are a provincial hospital and there are no nuns, etc. ) they refuse to give that option to people who want it. That's not fair to them, imo.
Sorry, I think I just misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to say that people should never go with their religions' beliefs on abortion and always go with the scientific reasoning, but i see you were just trying to say that religious people shouldn't interfere with OTHERS' abortions. In that case, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am a Christian, and I do not support the picketing and abuse that aborting mothers receive from my fellow christians outside of clinics and hospitals. I believe that, while there is potential in a human baby, if it is in the early stages it isn't yet conscious or totally alive, and I think that every woman has the right to choice, especially if the circumstances of pregnancy were not traditional (rape, etc.)
It's no worries man! We talked it out and now we understand each other. Yeah like if you don't agree with it because of religious reasons I get those are your reasons but yeah interfering with others for your reasons isn't good. It was a good talk and I'm happy we were civil. I hope to get more good debates with you in the future. Also, Happy Easter to you as you said you were Christian! Christ is Risen! Went to the early mass for Easter this year and I've never been with the choir - quite nice! I hope yours was good as well!
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· 7 years ago
I agree with abortion. If a girl was raped and became pregnant, she should have the choice on whether or not she wants to keep it. She shoukdnt be forced to carry something to term that she didn't want
I understand abortion in cases of rape, incest and such. But I have a hard time though when its a girl who isn't being careful and doesn't care if she gets pregnant just because she can get an abortion and doesn't do anything to prevent pregnancy.
@fire_is_hot first, i love your name. Second, a lot are careful like having birth control pills, etc. but things just happen. Some people can't afford birth control or it fails. I do get where you are coming from I'd be crapping my pants if I had unprotected sex I don't get how people do it. From what I have learned from university is a lot of people who get abortions are ones who already have kids and don't want more. All I keep thinking about from your comment is the chick from OITNB you know who I;m talking about? I can't remember her name.
Thanks :) Ya I get stuff happens, even when you are careful. Its a slippery slope of when does a woman have control over there body (like they should) verses when do we need to step in to help others who can't help themselves (like we should). Its a very messy gray area for sure! I'm not familiar with who you are talking about.
As far as rape and potentially harming the mother, those circumstances are completely undisputable.
What I have an issue with are the women who literally wait until the or 5,6, even 8 months pregnant when they decide they don't want to have the kid after all. At that point they should have to wait be at 6 months that baby is potentially viable and should no longer be considered disposable.
i can agree with that sentiment. if its early stages f pregnancy i think abortion should be allowed, but, as you said, there comes a point where it IS another human life and not a bundle of cells that you are killing (i say bundle of cells because im too ignorant to know what to actually call a early fetusy thingy)
I dont believe late term abortions are legal, I'm not totally sure so be kind if I'm wrong, I believe late term abortions are only performed if the fetus poses a fatal risk to the mother and thus itself as well. Such as times when instead of the fertilized egg burrowing into the uterine wall, it gets stuck in the fallopian tube which can cause a rupture and fatal internal bleeding before the baby is even close to full term.
I also think it is still totally the mothers choice if she wants to risk it or abort, the doctor i believe can only stongly advise her they cannot force her to abort even if it proves to be fatal to both mother and child.
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· 7 years ago
Exactly, you don't owe the child anything, and as much as a jerk I must seem, survival of the fittest deems that there's nothing wrong with abortion
Actually, that is not completely accurate. Survival of the fittest is based on the propagation of only the strongest genetics surviving over the weaker inferior genetics in order to improve the species as a whole. It is all about breeding more children, not less. The only way this particular argument is valid is if you or the father is of inferior genetic stock, in which case you yourself are of detriment to the species and should be weeded out. The reason this argument may sound eerily familiar is that it is the basis from the Hitler and his army of Nazi Eugenic scientist tried to justify the Holocaust.
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Just to be clear I in no way support this line of reasoning (or lack there of), I am simply following the line of reasoning to it's ultimate conclusion. There are far more valid justification for abortion than this.
Survival of the fittest? What the fuck? The whole point of us being civilized is that we're better than primitive, primal, animalistic things like that. Why don't we just murder all disabled and old people? They're not contributing anything right? Worst pro choice argument I've ever heard.
Don't feel like sharing on my account so here goes.
My grandmother was raped. Nine months later my father was born. Her family had begged her to have an abortion, but she didn't. If she had, my father, my brother, myself would never have existed. All those lives that never would have been.
Rape is often used as an excuse for abortion because it's an easy way to win. If you're against abortion that means you are against women who have been raped getting abortions and that makes you a monster. Just because more people agree that abortion may be justified in 1% of cases doesn't mean they are justified in the other 99% of cases.
The argument in the post is also a false equivalency: you can not be compelled to save a life, even when it would be very easy for you to do so. That is your right. You can not be COMPELLED to ACT, even to save a life.
You have no right to ACT to TAKE a life.
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· 7 years ago
You have no reason to sacrifice your own well being for anyone else ever
That's like someone trying to get you to save someone from getting hit by a car at your own expense
If that life can, and most definitely ruin your life, you can
Even a 40 to 60 chance is bad, you have to be sure with these things, and if not you probably shouldn't have it
one is a grown adult the other is (potentially) a child who you have to carry within you body for 9 months potentially ruining your body or even killing you and very likely putting a massive strain on your life.
The thing is guest, you're grandmother chose not to have to have an abortion. It has her choice and her's alone. By making abortion a legal procedure, we are giving women the right to chose for themselves, the right to chose what happens to their own bodies, the right to chose their own future.
Yes she did. And boy am I grateful, else my life would have been snuffed out two generations ago along with my fathers.
To quote Reagan "I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." I wouldn't support my mother aborting me. Would you support your mother aborting you? Why then would I or should I support another mother aborting another baby? Why wouldn't I want to give that baby the same chance I, my father, and yourself had?
*Insert religious argument, scientific argument, ad hominem argument, overly simplified argument, anecdotal evidence, shoddy science, "oh yeah, well my uncle's a doctor" argument, Republican argument, Democrat argument*
Addendum: *any worthless online argument NOT included in the above list may not be construed as intentionally omitted, and any worthwhile online argument may not be included at all*
Ethics and morality is realative. Just putting it out there. There's no clear line as to what is ethical and unethical. I for one do not support abortion but I'm not going to impose it on anyone, and likewise, because someone believes a woman should have control over what to do with her body and that of the fetus' shouldn't be imposed on anyone either. We should all just respect eachother's beliefs without shaming and pointing fingers.
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· 7 years ago
Abortion should be allowed for when the woman is raped, is too young, physically can't have the baby. Abortion should not be allowed as a form of birth control.
Abortions are for when contraceptives fail. No one chooses to go through a painful and difficult to obtain procedure just for fun because it's so much easier than condoms.
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· 7 years ago
I mean for when chicks get pregnant multiple times so keep getting abortions
Um hello? There are so many more circumstances to pregnancy than just having sex. Rape, for instance. They certainly didn't "buy the ticket" for that ride, did they?
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· 7 years ago
If in the process for being treated for lung cancer an infant is murdered for your convenience, then yes treatment should be viewed as morally incorrect.
That is essentially what was said, if you got pregnant you don't deserve an abortion cause you had sex = if you get lung cancer you don't deserve treatment cause you smoked
What about when you didn't consent, or if you didn't intend to get pregnant at all? Or if there's a good risk of the mother dying from the birth, or a good chance of the baby dying and suffering as soon as it's born? Or if you don't have the money to support a child?
A family member of mine had to get an abortion because her body couldn't handle the pregnancy. Could you really have that on your conscience a preventable death? Would you really want to kill that pregnant lady?
Okay, as far as the cancer scenario goes, people seem to forget that adoption is an option. No one is saying they have to raise the baby. Now, I will say, in cases on liver damage, if you continue to drink, they will refuse to put you on the donor list, the same with smoking with cancer.
Tell you what you have such a problem with abortion then you pay for the baby, you go through the morning sickness, you let your own body be ruined by a child you didn't want to have, you raise it and put your life on hold for it.
Again, you don't have to raise it, and there are plenty of programs available to pay for the medical care. Pregnancy doesn't ruin your body if you actually take care of yourself during, with certain exceptions. And I have made my stance pretty clear. My problem with abortion comes when women wait until they are already in the final trimester to decide they don't want to go through with it after all. At that point all the "damage" is already done and you are in fact killing a very potent viable child.
And what about people that never wanted a baby in the first place??? Sometimes contraception fails and that can't be helped, that 'baby' isn't even sentient or alive until about 7 months of the pregnancy. So fuck you acting as if your genes are superior just because you refuse to empathise with people who feel the need to get an abortion
They are viable well before the 7th month, and they are able to feel pain and react by the 23rd-24th week. The earliest baby born ti survive was 21 weeks and 5 days, just about 5 and a half months.
What I have an issue with are the women who literally wait until the or 5,6, even 8 months pregnant when they decide they don't want to have the kid after all. At that point they should have to wait be at 6 months that baby is potentially viable and should no longer be considered disposable.
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Just to be clear I in no way support this line of reasoning (or lack there of), I am simply following the line of reasoning to it's ultimate conclusion. There are far more valid justification for abortion than this.
My grandmother was raped. Nine months later my father was born. Her family had begged her to have an abortion, but she didn't. If she had, my father, my brother, myself would never have existed. All those lives that never would have been.
Rape is often used as an excuse for abortion because it's an easy way to win. If you're against abortion that means you are against women who have been raped getting abortions and that makes you a monster. Just because more people agree that abortion may be justified in 1% of cases doesn't mean they are justified in the other 99% of cases.
The argument in the post is also a false equivalency: you can not be compelled to save a life, even when it would be very easy for you to do so. That is your right. You can not be COMPELLED to ACT, even to save a life.
You have no right to ACT to TAKE a life.
That's like someone trying to get you to save someone from getting hit by a car at your own expense
You can not take a life simply because their existence is troublesome.
Even a 40 to 60 chance is bad, you have to be sure with these things, and if not you probably shouldn't have it
To quote Reagan "I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." I wouldn't support my mother aborting me. Would you support your mother aborting you? Why then would I or should I support another mother aborting another baby? Why wouldn't I want to give that baby the same chance I, my father, and yourself had?
Addendum: *any worthless online argument NOT included in the above list may not be construed as intentionally omitted, and any worthwhile online argument may not be included at all*