There's actually a religion that believes that the Christian God, Yahweh, is the actual devil while Satan is the real good god. They believe that Yahweh, who is actually "Satan", won their battle and claimed that Satan is the bad guy.
(I'll call Satan "Lucifer" starting now.)
I don't believe either of them exist, but it is an interesting idea that I've pondered. Lucifer killed less than a dozen people in the Bible while Yahweh killed millions. Lucifer seemed to encourage knowledge and critical thinking while Yahweh condemns searching for knowledge. If you want to believe that Lucifer was the snake in the garden, then Lucifer didn't lie at all. He wanted humanity to be intelligent and moral while Yahweh seemed to wish for humanity to be ignorant.
Lucifer seems to accept that humans will love other people and wants them to enjoy life. Allowing them to embrace their sexuality and love regardless of gender.
I actually don't know of any evil deeds Satan commited in the Bible outside of ten murders that were commited when God told him to. If anyone has actual evil acts performed by him, then please share them and provide the verse so I can verify.
Do you have a verse for that? I know of one where God admits that he is the creator of evil e.g. sin, but nothing about Satan doing so.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 KJV (The wording changes amongst the versions, but the idea that God created the evil, destruction, or whatever stays.)
Oh, and it is God saying that. The verses before and after follow this with it repeated saying that "I am the Lord".
"[6] That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:6-7
What? That's just confusing. It doesn't say that God created good and then Satan corrupted it into evil. It says that God just created both good and evil without interference from Satan.
God creates sex to produce children satan uses it to break the law of chastity. God creates plants for certain uses and satan uses them to make alcohols and narcotics satan created nothing but takes something good and uses it for something bad.
No i said law of chastity which states that marriage is between a man and woman and that sex is for a couple who are lawfully wedded. I believe that it was stated in the ten commandments which states though shalt not commit adultery.
Wait, you're making claims for what I assume is your religion without even knowing what the Bible says? If you haven't read the Bible, then how can you know what it says and what God wants?
I have not read every sentence of the bible and all of religion is not centered around the bible. I can go to sunday school and pray about it. That is how i got my confirmation. Faith is the key. And
Faith? What about people who have faith in Allah or Vishnu? Aren't their beliefs as equally true as yours? If something can be used to defend all positions then it doesn't really defend any position.
You have faith that our god is not real just as much as a christian does in god along with muslims and jews all religions. Its a chance we all take and if you are curious i would ask you to pray about it.
Faith that god is not real? Not really. I just haven't been given any evidence that he has existed therefore I do not see any reason to believe that this god exists.
Which one? And how will I know that it is god talking? How can I verify that it is not a delusion in the circumstance that I do hear a voice? I'm already being tested for schizophrenia due to the voices in my head, so I wouldn't really be able to take a voice in my head to be evidence. Why doesn't he just show himself?
I promise you that you will feel it and no and just get on your knees and pray to god. Most religions do it that way and i personally have gotten results that way. And god has many signs to use to inspire. I dont know everything but i encourage you to pray and find out
That makes no sense. Hearing voices in your head is insanity and feelings aren't evidence. What you are describing isn't a way of finding the truth; it's a way of convicing yourself you have. Have you ever thought out your beliefs or are you just repeating what you've been told?
Course i have. I prayed day and night didnt sleep and cried because life didnt make sense and was not worth living without god. I prayed and prayed and got my answer and trust me you can tell when god talks if you truley want to know and humble i would ask god then you can know. Whatever disease you have does not matter because god is almighty and will look over and help all his children if they simply reach out.
That's not evidence. That doesn't convince anyone except those who already believe. Also wtf? "Whatever disease you have does not matter because god is almighty and will look over and help all his children if they simply reach out." So no Christian dies from disease? That is completely, irrefutably, and completely false that only a fool would believe.
People are converted because they are touched by the spirit and are willing to open their hearts to god. I never said christians were immune to diseases i was talking about your skitzophrenia or however its spelled. God will reach you and you will hear his voice and know it is god.
What about people who convert to Islam claiming that they heard him? Is that proof that Allah is the true God? Why are you being so selective with your deity of choice? And that's exactly what you claimed. You claimed that diseases don't matter because God will help them.
And schizophrenia isn't a disease; It's a medical disorder that gives me voices telling me I'm worthless and that everyone hates me. My depression isn't a disease; it's a mental illness that causes life to be ever so miserable. My sociopathy isn't a disease; it's my lack of empathy and anger issues.
Also, I'm done with this. I refuse to believe that someone can be so ignorant and incapable of spelling a word that is literally spelled in front of them. Provide evidence for your beliefs or admit that your belief is irrational.
God is something that the individual must find not something that can be put on display like a scientific discovery. You demand evidence but obviously do not seek a real answer because i have told you to ask of god. There is no need to get into name calling and no need for any hostility. People can choose to believe what they wish but you must want the answer and find it yourself. You ask for something but only want to hear what you wish. Im sorry but you dont understand religion and that is where communication is cut. Its not science stop treating it like so.
Then what use is this God if he can't be proven? There are only inherent negatives to believing something like this. The only positives that can come from it can be easily replicated in much better, and less abusive, ways.
I doubt it without god everything we have done and will do is for nothing. There is no justice or mercy of that sort without god. Without god there is no reason to struggle through life.
Why does it need a point? We are insignificant specks of duwr floating in another speck around another speck known as the soon which is just one of trillions. Why do we need an ultimate purpose?
We don't have any ultimate or divine purpose. We have our own personal purposes. Do you not love your family? Perhaps your children or beloved? Is there not something you can do to make humanity better? Some people's purpose is just that. Some people's purpose is to live. I don't believe in purposes. I have goals and that goal is to have as much joy in this life because I see no reason to believe there is anything else.
I can't give you any reason to live. That's something you have to figure out yourself. Your life is what you make of it. You decide "the point".
The worth of life is odd. Sometimes I don't think there is one which is why I am on the suicide watch list. Sometimes, like now, the worth of my life is in the person who tells me good morning and the little pleasure I get from reading, writing, or listening to music. Why is life worth it? That's up to you and nobody else. Not even a constructed deity can decide that.
Well thats the difference for me personally i cant just be fine with the idea of no purpose or some temporary thing because life isnt enjoyable. I dont think that it just happens we were born from some explosion of matter that just happened to have everything line up perfectly for us to exist. For me it is impossible to deny the feelings i have had and the things which i have been given from god. I will say though best of luck to you and if you ever do feel like life doesnt matter or you have no where left to go to pray for it cant hurt if you feel there is no deity there is nothing to lose in praying.
You're feelings don't mean anything. Some people feel that Bigfoot exists and have personally believe that they've seen him. You wanting there to be a purpose doesn't mean there is one.
Your lack of knowledge on the creation of the universe doesn't mean you can say that God did it. That's called the argument from ignorance or argument from personal incredulity.
Just because you believe that a deity doesn’t exist does not mean it doesn’t. Arguing from ignorance am i wrong that a big bang occurred and that a long and careful process of evolution occurred to create us while perfectly timed events happened during the process to make it possible for us to live and thrive? I believe my side and you believe yours both of us are taking a shot in the dark don’t act like yours has more strength to it or is the obvious answer. You cant prove my beliefs wrong and you cant prove yours right.
The Christian God is more than unlikely. It is impossible for it to exist. You cannot disprove the existence of a God, yes, but the Bible provides plenty of statements that show that the mentioned god is impossible. Example? I can't disprove that there isn't a triangle floating on a piece of paper... until you say that it has four sides. The same with the Christian God. It is an impossible being.
But let's ignore that. You seem to be thinking that humans are special. We are a chance occurrence. There was no series of events that occurred with the intent of creating humans. We just happened to have evolved. I'm no expert at this, but here is a video that explains it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X3g_ITRBxgs
You are falling back on one of the worst arguments you can get. Your acknowledgement that you have no evidence for God is conceding that I win. I don't have to provide evidence God doesn't exist. You have to. You are claiming that he exists while I was not claiming he doesn't. It's called the burden of proof. The one making the claim is the one who provides the evidence.
This isn't just about you. Your religion spreads sexism, slavery, murder, genocide, rape, and so many other evils. Even if you don't follow your religion and follow these things other people are influcened by them which is why Texas is currently trying to literally ban science class from being taught
Listen im gonna sum this up best i can. You think life is better without religion. You think religion specifically christianity has created atrocities and various other problems. Well here is what i think, there have been atrocities committed by all people regardless of race or religion example for atheism the soviet anti religious campaign from 1928-1941 which only ceased after nazi germany invaded. You bring no purpose to life and i must ask you why do we have a conscious and where does it come from? Why do we feel for people and desire to be selfless even when it does not benefit us? With all this why do you look at religion as inferior? I just look at it as two opposing sides of a stick. You cant prove it wrong but demand we prove it right or disappear as if you have made some unspoken rule of religion.
I will say it again and again until i die god is real and i do not need to prove it physically to know it is true. If you want truth find it yourself for that is the key to religion and the element you seem to miss the most.
The Nazis were a Christian origination and Hitler commonly quoted the Bible in his speeches. Name a single good thing that religion does that cannot be done better without the extra baggage known as a deity.
Ok first off nazis were by no means a christian group. Hitler did in fact quote the bible in his speeches along with many other things that would raise support but not come true. I mean its what every politician does right appeal to the nation. In his memoirs, Hitler's confidant, personal architect, and Minister of Armaments Albert Speer, wrote: "Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him" I could quote many more things but the point is made clear. Also my point was that all groups do terrible things so Idk how you are proving me wrong in that sense. Now the biggest thing for me is like you said there is no purpose to life so why would people follow certain moral guide lines. If there is no after life there is no reason to not kill or rape and so forth correct? We all turn to dust along with our actions so why should people not commit sins?
I can tell you all sorts of things but they wont matter. If you really want to know and really are curious then i would ask of god. Humble yourself and pray with sincerity and god will answer that is the best advice i can give you.
I was asking for God for the first 12 years of my life.
There was a point, somewhere in year 13 that I stopped asking. When I stopped praying my problems would all be magic~ed away by an all powerful deity like I'd been told would happen persistently throughout my life.
"...pray with sincerity and god will answer..."
If he answered at all, his answer was to stop asking.
It's fine to believe in a God or even multiple gods.
But once you use that belief to excuse yourself from action in any situation at all... Then I have a problem.
You may say God is all powerful and will reach out to you.
And sure. Maybe he will. But consider, that maybe you are his way of reaching out to someone else.
Don't think, "God will solve your problems." Because that's a very dangerous way of thinking. To you and everyone else.
It's definitely more like, "God has told us to work together to solve each other's problems, and only to ask him if we are incapable."
Yeah i get it and i didnt mean to send this to a open chat it was a reply to spiderman that i accidentally wrote in the chat but in my opinion god cares about all of his children and that if you are willing to put in the work and the faith he will bless you it might just not be in the way you think.
(I'll call Satan "Lucifer" starting now.)
I don't believe either of them exist, but it is an interesting idea that I've pondered. Lucifer killed less than a dozen people in the Bible while Yahweh killed millions. Lucifer seemed to encourage knowledge and critical thinking while Yahweh condemns searching for knowledge. If you want to believe that Lucifer was the snake in the garden, then Lucifer didn't lie at all. He wanted humanity to be intelligent and moral while Yahweh seemed to wish for humanity to be ignorant.
Lucifer seems to accept that humans will love other people and wants them to enjoy life. Allowing them to embrace their sexuality and love regardless of gender.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 KJV (The wording changes amongst the versions, but the idea that God created the evil, destruction, or whatever stays.)
Oh, and it is God saying that. The verses before and after follow this with it repeated saying that "I am the Lord".
"[6] That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:6-7
And schizophrenia isn't a disease; It's a medical disorder that gives me voices telling me I'm worthless and that everyone hates me. My depression isn't a disease; it's a mental illness that causes life to be ever so miserable. My sociopathy isn't a disease; it's my lack of empathy and anger issues.
Also, I'm done with this. I refuse to believe that someone can be so ignorant and incapable of spelling a word that is literally spelled in front of them. Provide evidence for your beliefs or admit that your belief is irrational.
If life without God isn't worth it to you, then that's your problem because nobody except the extremely indoctrinated believe that.
We don't have any ultimate or divine purpose. We have our own personal purposes. Do you not love your family? Perhaps your children or beloved? Is there not something you can do to make humanity better? Some people's purpose is just that. Some people's purpose is to live. I don't believe in purposes. I have goals and that goal is to have as much joy in this life because I see no reason to believe there is anything else.
I can't give you any reason to live. That's something you have to figure out yourself. Your life is what you make of it. You decide "the point".
You are falling back on one of the worst arguments you can get. Your acknowledgement that you have no evidence for God is conceding that I win. I don't have to provide evidence God doesn't exist. You have to. You are claiming that he exists while I was not claiming he doesn't. It's called the burden of proof. The one making the claim is the one who provides the evidence.
There was a point, somewhere in year 13 that I stopped asking. When I stopped praying my problems would all be magic~ed away by an all powerful deity like I'd been told would happen persistently throughout my life.
"...pray with sincerity and god will answer..."
If he answered at all, his answer was to stop asking.
It's fine to believe in a God or even multiple gods.
But once you use that belief to excuse yourself from action in any situation at all... Then I have a problem.
You may say God is all powerful and will reach out to you.
And sure. Maybe he will. But consider, that maybe you are his way of reaching out to someone else.
Don't think, "God will solve your problems." Because that's a very dangerous way of thinking. To you and everyone else.
It's definitely more like, "God has told us to work together to solve each other's problems, and only to ask him if we are incapable."
I just have a lot of qualms with the way people worship God. Or any deity for that matter.