No, they try to kill us because of cultural and socioeconomic conditions that have been gestating for much much longer than any parties currently involved have even existed as national or religious entities.
And then we kill them even harder because we've always had a taste for the blood of tyrants and savages.
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· 5 years ago
The thirst is, was and has always been for the oil and other natural resources, and the "tyrants and savages" are "our" best buddies, and "we" help them oppressing their people or raiding their neighbors just as long as they grant access to the good stuff. Once they fail to deliver though, they become the enemy. Pretty much every terrorist. move against the west has been fueledby that behavior. We all talk about our values of freedom and democracy and still our closest ally in the muslim world is fucking Saudi Arabia. Iran contra affair and all the other covert and open wars in south america? The entire middle east situation? All that happened the last 60-70 years.
When did Israel change their name to Saudi Arabia? I feel the UAE (or anyone for that matter) might not appreciate that.
As for oil and natural resources, we've got plenty of our own, and our largest foreign provider is Canada.
Now, I'm not denying that we've cut some bad deals, but I'll shake a jerk's hand a million times before I negotiate with the devil.
You got enough oil so why would you steal any from some brown people in a shithole country? That's really great news to the people of venezuela who are looking forward to getting rid of their tyrant and totally not their oil.
There’s some truth to that but it’s oversimplification. It isn’t precisely “oil” that we are after. It’s power. By manipulating events to control politics and markets a country can remain in an advantages position. The major powers are fine with conflict zones so long as those conflicts do not begin to pose a threat to their interest or security. Afghanistan was not a super gentle place pre 9/11- but there wasn’t an interest there until the US was attacked. US policy is that brown people can kill each other all they want as long as they don’t bother or endanger white people safety or money while doing it. The need for oil isn’t so much that. It comes from a few places. OPEC showed they had the ability to influence world markets and economies if they wanted. World powers don’t like other people having that power. That’s one part. Not that we want the oil per se- but that a steady flow of it keeps things favorable to us
Now- we do want it too, that’s just not THE reason. It’s a simple formula. Buying foreign oil prevents other countries from gaining access to the bulk we buy. That drives down available supplies and increases prices globally which holds back other countries from matching our industrialization. It also allows us to buy oil at a lower price WHILE driving up the cost for limited supply, and then we sell our abundant oil on the foreign markets for more than we buy it in for. That not only means we effectively make money every time we buy oil (and we are thirsty...) but it also means that we capture much of the money from foreign oil buying countries that would have gone to the countries supplying us.
And we get to kill motherfuckers who light little girls on fire, all while stacking the global deck in our favor.
It's like having your cake and eating it too
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Edited 5 years ago
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· 5 years ago
So what's that supposed to mean? We(sterners) fuck the brown people for overall power, and not just for oil? Meaning, we don't just steal the profits of their land but also keep them at the ground by fucking with their chances? Ok, sorry for oversimplifying and thanks for pointing out it's actually a lot more fucked up than I put it in short form.
Cudos to @famousone as well for pointing out it's not just about power but - for some twisted weirdos - also about the reeling in omnipotential murder phantasies. We should be glad people like this don't get their sweaty pervy hands on guns and other weapons so easily.. uhm, wait a minute...
American culture glorified violence. Violence was a necessity of early American life, and the prosperity of the country has largely come from war and conflict. To get people to kill or die in such conflicts, or to support them while not engaged, painting things as “good vs evil,” dehumanizing the enemy, and selling the killing of said “evil” men as righteous goes a long way to overcoming the basic fundamental weight the general human subconscious has to taking another life. Normalizing violence and crafting an image of the hero for the trigger person through media and propaganda helps. The indignation and condemnation of others feeds this because America has a strong spirit of rebellion and rejection, of actively seeking the path that causes disapproval or shock. The idea of a social or literal “outlaw” is part of our mythos. The idea that exceptional people are those who don’t follow the compass of others but follow their own self guided morality. A rejection of high minded ideals...
... and trappings of class and propriety for salt of the earth values and simple living. There is much good in this but also much potential for bad as well. I can say that especially when younger I enjoyed a good fight. I was keen on the idea of being an instrument of karmic retribution for those who it seemed prudent to deal justice to before they reached an afterlife of natural consequence. There is both an excitement and a terror unlike any when you hurt another human being and they set out to hurt you back. There’s a primitive instinct and drive, a challenge and a factory of real danger in a game of tactical chess with another thinking human where the stakes are high enough to push you both beyond your limits. I can’t deny that or the primitive desire for swift and brutal justice. It’s a simplistic but effective solution in theory- there is a way to solve almost any problem by applying enough force to it, and that includes human problems. There’s an idea of a message- that when...
.. done, that person won’t be a problem anymore. That others will see your strength or hear of it and be reluctant to walk that road. That’s the idea anyway- in truth though more often it causes escalation and pissing matches, those who aren’t killed now have strong personal motivation to seek their own retribution. Violence- killing- are effective tools. Sometimes they are the best solution we have to a problem. But most often they are not and should rarely be the first or even 15th thing we try. There is no glory in violence. No nobility. That’s the irony. We sell violence as an ends to a superior morality in order to get people to condone violence for the sake of material gains- but you can’t claim a moral victory through immorality. We will exaggerate threats so that we can claim the need was dire and we had no choice where we did. In the end most of it is for wealth and comfort, any moral victory is a secondary consequence.
I'm not used to being psychoanalyzed like this...
As for the rest of your comment, I don't really have the energy to pick it apart, I am absolutely smoked.
I shouldn't even be online, I should be sleeping! The hell is wrong with me?
Please don’t take it personal. I’m American too- so it’s not so much a comment on you as it is our culture. Get some rest- for what it’s worth whatever may be wrong with you may be slightly different from what may be wrong with everyone else- but it’s not likely any better or worse. Get some rest and feel better.
Thats a blunt way of saying it but its more then about death its about the way we live and what gives our lives meaning in this world. Knowing god exist makes my life worth living and makes me happy knowing that most pain in this world is just temporal.
It is a very narrow view. We have far less holy wars than one might think. Even struggles like “Muslim extremists vs the West” are less about actual religion and more a complex political and economic struggle which religion and culture and national identity are invoked to rally people to the cause of the ambitions of old and selfish men. When is the last time the developed world saw a conflict based truly on religious ideology and not just a general prejudice or ulterior agenda? The prejudice that makes those sorts of killings is secular- if it isn’t religion it is race, ethnicity, political alignment- capitalist or socialist- so on. So I do agree that it is quite unfair and incorrect to make such statements implicating religion. People willing to fight are people who have faith in something. It doesn’t have to be a god or an afterlife- it can even just be an emotion. Religion has become the cool thing to denounce. It’s a cycle.
And then we kill them even harder because we've always had a taste for the blood of tyrants and savages.
As for oil and natural resources, we've got plenty of our own, and our largest foreign provider is Canada.
Now, I'm not denying that we've cut some bad deals, but I'll shake a jerk's hand a million times before I negotiate with the devil.
It's like having your cake and eating it too
Cudos to @famousone as well for pointing out it's not just about power but - for some twisted weirdos - also about the reeling in omnipotential murder phantasies. We should be glad people like this don't get their sweaty pervy hands on guns and other weapons so easily.. uhm, wait a minute...
As for the rest of your comment, I don't really have the energy to pick it apart, I am absolutely smoked.
I shouldn't even be online, I should be sleeping! The hell is wrong with me?