Doesn't matter they got mental illness or whatever, there is no excuse for holding up a gun and shooting at people.
You can be the victim as much as you want but just bc you're in pain doesn't mean you have the right to make other suffer.
I agree that mental illness isn't a write off to do whatever you want, but I also think its worth while to look into attempting to help people before tragedy strikes. Mental health services should be easier to obtain, and there shouldn't be the stigma that there is. Many people refuse to acknowledge they have mental illness because there is stigma associated with it. Admitting you have a problem is the first step in correcting it. And with mental health problems the second step is usually seeking professional assistance. Those need to be easier steps. Evey step after is going to be hard sometimes regardless of society, but those need to be easier.
We need to hold people accountable for their actions. But we also need to help people who need help.
I'm not saying that it was. It's just easy to go from "people with mental illness should be held responsible for their actions" to "People with mental illness are a problem" and never actually get to "we should try and make it easier for people with mental illness to get help" so whenever I see one of the first two without the third, I try to make sure the third is brought up.
Catholics, Christians, Jews...would all fall under this as well. I think it’s a by-product of learned behavior, not an intrinsic one. That would’t make them mentally ill in that respect, just incepted.
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· 5 years ago
However, the CONTINUATION of blind hatred after being well-informed of something would fall under mental illness.
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· 5 years ago
So I would probably drop the real numbers quite a bit.
I don’t think you can compare the Christian “hatred” of gays to the Muslim hatred of them
Have a look at civil rights in majority Muslim countries
Even better, go over there and build a gay club, see how long you live
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· 5 years ago
Oh yeah, never in the history of Christianity were gays ever stripped of their rights or killed for being gay...odd how Christians can’t accept that people who follow their religion have committed mass atrocities. I think they can be compared quite easily.
That may be so but seeing as Muslims quite recently in Britain campaigned against learning about the gays (and won) it doesn’t seem like there’s a way to do so, especially as most mulisms who hate the gays kill them on sight via rooftop it really seems to me the first step in stopping that is either getting to the kiddos before Islam or de-converting the haters from Islam first (which is punishable by death in Islam...) so they can actually talk to gays. You can’t have them talk to gays first because they see murder as compassionate so the gays and apostates stop sinning by being alive so they get a lesser sentence in hell.
Furthermore, although history was dark at times that doesn’t change the fact that modern Islam, such as is present in Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, and Lebanon needs a reformation today
That’s actually a good point @skybirds15
According to the Bible, if a believer leaves the faith they should be engaged and attempted to be won back, then excommunicated if they do not return (see Matthew 18 and James 5)
According to the Koran, apostates should be killed (see the link, from an Islamic website no less: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20327/why-is-the-apostate-to-be-executed-in-islam
To expand on the same point @cakelover made: the majority of history was dark, brutal and without regard for human rights or life. This has changed, and even christianity was reined by the 21st century, so it wouldn't trample human rights because of beliefs. But Islam didn't change a bit. This is why it's something that has to be addressed, because in a civilized world, it is an anachronistic fragment of the past, resentful towards LGBT, non-believers and apostates. The horrors inflicted by other religions are left in the past, but this is still ongoing and has to be addressed.
This is just one of the reasons why I detest the assertion that Christianity and Islam are equally “harsh”, and particularly that they are “strands of the same rope”
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· 5 years ago
I guess what I’m saying is that you’re lumping all Muslims into the same category. Most modern muslims that I have met or heard about have ceased to take part in these extremes of their religion, in the same way that Christians have turned away from the Old Testament. It’s obnoxious when you don’t even acknowledge this, or even the fact that Christian terrorists are still a thing. Extreme people will do extreme things, but to call assume every Muslim is like this because of their written word? Truly disheartening. For being preachers of a religion with a premise of “loving thy neighbor”, you guys really aren’t that open-hearted.
Where did I lump them all into the same category? Or refuse to acknowledge that some terrorism is perpetrated by Christians?
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
My point is that Islam, by and large, needs a reformation urgently because people are being killed in the name of Allah
As for lumping them all into the same category, mate, I live and work in England
I’ve had Muslim neighbors, colleagues, fellow students when I was in college
Some of them have been top lads, some of them have been obnoxious, similar to any other members of religion/race/gender etc
Oh, a side point, the Old Testament was initially given to the Jews, not Christians
Actually, Islam has changed. It used to be women could dress how they wanted to in Iran and the like. Now it’s eyes only or punishment. Islamic countries invented stuff like ALgebra and ALchemy, but now (possibly because of dictatorships caused by oil caused by the Fertile Crescent becoming a wasteland) they’re backwards scientifically.
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· 5 years ago
@cakelover I was actually referring more to the other comments, but I live in England as well. I think it’s safe to say that Muslim extremists need reform. It seems everyday Muslims are doing just fine without it.
I'd be interested to see some statistics pertaining to these matters
I believe that according to one recent survey, 99% of the population of Pakistan supported the widespread implementation of Sharia law (and thus for homosexuals to be executed) for example
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· 5 years ago
I agree with you on one thing: we need hard statistics on everything we are discussing. There’s a reason a divide in thinking exists in the first place. On a side note, I’m glad this didn’t devolve into ad hominem.
Anyone who would actually consider let alone act on, mowing down crowds of strangers, including small children, is a sick fuck. That make ZERO difference in any of the situations. Someone that fucked up with hate isn't going to seek help.
The real truth is that neither white suprematists nor Muslims are mentally ill they just both have strong unchanging values passed down through generations .
Which is why a path to de-radicalising people is through dialogue and not censorship. Offer them an alternative to their ideology, not force them into the darkness. Sad that so many people refuse to understand that.
I think that had something to do with monarchies in general, since most historical empires I can think of had a single ruler who held all power expect maybe Rome
Also what does this have to do with anuthing
There’s a positive correlation between Islam and inbreeding, so I think guest 1 was saying: yes Muslim shooters are mentally ill? I don’t know but this comment thread started with inbreeding so
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· 5 years ago
It was itrelevant to the post, as my comment was irrelevant to the first comment...which was the point.
Well, maybe the cause of the inbreeding is causing the shooters. For one thing, the Islamic faith says that martyrs get to go to heaven, so lots of men kill them selves doing this shit for the free pass as they think they are sinners. Women don’t because women are 1/2 men in Islam and thus don’t get free passes. Therefore, there’s lots of women around and less men, and therefore, polyamory, and then inadequacy on the parts of men without harems, then those men think it’s becuase they’re sinners and go martyr. This means that lots of kids have the same father or grandfather due to recursive martyrdom, so inbreeding.
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· 5 years ago
Please, share your evidence for a correlation between shooters and inbreeding.
I didn’t have evidence. I did say maybe, and the rest of my comment after the first part is me backing up my idea that maybe there is a correlation. It was a propositon, say, that the idea that mass shooting and inbreeding in Islam isn’t disconnected.
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· 5 years ago
Yes, and I’m only saying it’s an empty statement without evidence.
1
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· 5 years ago
But, I am good on debate for the evening. Have a good night.
You can be the victim as much as you want but just bc you're in pain doesn't mean you have the right to make other suffer.
We need to hold people accountable for their actions. But we also need to help people who need help.
Have a look at civil rights in majority Muslim countries
Even better, go over there and build a gay club, see how long you live
Gays have been repressed somewhat, although I hear it was quite prominent in many cultures
The ancient Greeks for example
Here’s one link, more are available through Google: http://www.bpnews.net/51379/christian-genocide-naming-nigerias-mass-slaughter
According to the Bible, if a believer leaves the faith they should be engaged and attempted to be won back, then excommunicated if they do not return (see Matthew 18 and James 5)
According to the Koran, apostates should be killed (see the link, from an Islamic website no less: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20327/why-is-the-apostate-to-be-executed-in-islam
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
My point is that Islam, by and large, needs a reformation urgently because people are being killed in the name of Allah
As for lumping them all into the same category, mate, I live and work in England
I’ve had Muslim neighbors, colleagues, fellow students when I was in college
Some of them have been top lads, some of them have been obnoxious, similar to any other members of religion/race/gender etc
Oh, a side point, the Old Testament was initially given to the Jews, not Christians
I believe that according to one recent survey, 99% of the population of Pakistan supported the widespread implementation of Sharia law (and thus for homosexuals to be executed) for example
Thank you @skybird15
Following a back-asswards religion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_prevalence_of_consanguinity.svg
Also what does this have to do with anuthing