I agree but also not. It’s a bit of a fine line and a close shave. Women are not sex objects- but male enjoyment of female sexuality often involves some degree of objectification- and often women too derive sexual arousal or satisfaction- or at least validation or empowerment from this. There’s a reconciliation between recognizing a whole and complete human being- but also appreciating their physicality and sexuality. A woman might wear an outfit because t makes her feel sexy. A man might see said woman and both respond to her outward confidence based in her feelings, but also in the fact he finds her form sexy in said outfit.
It seems to me that maybe men should try not to view women as objects. It's not that hard not to. Have some self control. I agree with the sexy outfit thing for the most part, but this image is just aimed at men. I could show this to just about anyone and they'd agree that it's objectifying.
Now- when a woman or group of women (or men) choose to be intentionally provocative- they may not welcome sexual advance and certainly not assault- but there is likely to be and to be desired and appreciation. Of course one can be not trying to be sexual and have another find a thing sexual- even just being silly or being angry can arouse some people watching. So placing a hard line on objectification is a difficult thing- and how we reconcile those choosing to self objectify or even dealing with ideas f wether such behaviors are done out of a feeling of social obligation or “grooming” is a whole an of worms and another long post.
So I agree that many DO objectify women and many seem to forget that any woman they gawk at is in fact a person. But we have to look at factors like wether it was their intended purpose to illicit such responses (like a pornographic model
Perhaps) as well as male sexuality.
Men- who are known for things like “the dick pic” can be said to self objectify THEMSELVES. Women can think and feel likewise- but let’s only speak of men at the moment to simplify. Men often see sex as completely separate from other aspects of life and personality. Like many things men “compartmentalize” and sex and the enjoyment of sex exist in their own box often. So there is often no disrespect or dehumanization intended. It’s just for men- the person they had dinner with and talked about all this deep stuff can be seen as completely separate from the person they screwed in an Arby’s bathroom even though they share the same body.
So where respect comes in and where I feel this sort of thi. Is out of place is that while we should acknowledge male sexuality to a point where it isn’t assault or harassment etc- men must also respect females and other types of sexuality. One should t feel ashamed to enjoy the female form- but one should also be mindful that in mixed company others may not derive the same enjoyment or consider such displays tasteful.
@sunflowers- but what is wrong with an image aimed at men exactly? Can we not have images aimed at men or aimed at women or aimed at people of specific sexualities? Must all things be designed to appeal to all people or to no one group over any other? The other question of course is- who gets to be the one to tell these women that if they feel like putting on a display for male enjoyment that they cannot have that self agency to do so?
No, there's nothing wrong with it, that's why pornography exists after all. And you're completely twisting my words. What I am trying to say is that the objectification of women in our society, and across the world, is outrageous. It seems everyone wants to see women naked, and once they are, they're a slut or whore who is asking to be assaulted. It's just so ridiculous. I urge you to read this article and have a tiny glimpse into what our world feels like:
I’m well aware. It’s an issue near and dear to my heart. I agree that 1. The objectification of women by society is too much. When we are talking about the wholesale objectification, unqualified, of an entire gender- that’s a huge problem. 2. Women in general, all over the world, through history until present get a bad deal. 3. Men AND women shaming women for experiencing and expressing sexuality as they desire is disgusting and wrong. It is a symptom of a society that forces gender roles and sexual roles on to women and paints women as a lesser sex held to different values than men.
“Slut shaming” and the like of women is not only morally wrong and socially harmful as well as harmful to individuals- but it is counter productive. When men do so to women they are not only doing wrong to women but to men. In a world where women could feel free of stigma to express themselves sexually and pursue desire without undo social repercussions- women on the whole would be more likely to reciprocate to sexual desire. In a world where women didn’t “shame” other women and “compete” the rights and ability to exercise the rights of women would be more greatly reinforced. The classic: “even if you don’t want to do something protecting others rights to protects your own rights to do what you want” scenario.
So I don’t think we disagree so much as I wanted to clarify the nuance there. There isn’t so much a problem with objectification itself in this case as there is with context, consent, forum, expression, and other issues. FunSubstance is a forum where many people come to have fun- and many have different ideas about what that means- but co tent like this is generally by nature only “fun” to Heterosexual males and perhaps a small segment of homosexual females (although in general this is less to the demographic tastes on average.)
The fact that objectification is a thing that is somewhat inherent to many people of all genders sexualities is a truth- exercising that with a willing partner or participant in an appropriate forum and manner is one thing- but the larger social issue is the inability to distinguish who and when such acts are appropriate and instead to apply them to all women at any time or place.
It also lies in the fact that as you say- objectification and sexualization are issues which can carry trauma or “baggage” for people- meaning that displaying such images in view of those not consenting and or not desiring to encounter them is not a very socially considerate thing to do.
The common reply by many would be “what? Anything. That can make people uncomfortable is taboo?!” No. It is not. If one has something to say- something worth saying, an observation on society, a message which such topics or images is used poignantly for impact- these are all good reasons to bring up uncomfortable topics. To simply bring them up for “shock value” alone or because you can is “trolling” and not an actual reason to do so. Likewise we see many jokes of political, racial, etc nature and people say “why is everyone so easily offended?” Well- often these jokes aren’t ones which make a particular observation about society but instead perpetuate stereotypes or are otherwise simply veiled propaganda using a mask of humor.
So in this case I don’t feel this post should be defended. But I do feel that it’s important to note there are nuances to the issue and multiple view points.
Perhaps) as well as male sexuality.
(just copy & paste into google)