Electric motors can generate impressive torque- and do so effectively from 0 rpm as opposed to most any internal combustion engine which tend to need to reach at least 1,000rpm even in “low rpm” applications to see peak torque. Torque as a work force however is useless if it cannot be applied. In the case of a car- if the torque is capable of overcoming the traction available to the drive wheels- your tires will loose traction and some of all of that torque is wasted spinning the tires instead of moving the vehicle forward- often called a “burnout” when done intentionally as a display of power.
So the thing that ultimately effects this is the contact patch of the tires. In general- wider tires will give more contact surface and this more grip between two otherwise identical tires. The compound of the tire will also influence how much grip it can generate, and under what conditions it has “optimum” grip. For example a “perfectly smooth” tire often called a “slick” in racing has more traction on clean, dry, smooth, flat ground than a tire with treads or grooves in general- but some level of tread or groove improves total available traction in conditions where water, debris, mid etc. are a factor. The “stiffness” and construction of the tire come in to play as well since the sidewall of a tire deforms- and that deformation is torque being used on the tire and not in propelling the vehicle.
Weight and weight distribution are HUGE factors in traction. Vehicles driven by the front wheels (FWD) for example have traction disadvantages going up steep hills or in hard acceleration because weight transfers to the rear of the car and takes traction away from acceleration. This is why rear or all wheel drive vehicles tend to be preferred and advantaged in the sport of drag racing. It’s also why many used to icy or snowy roads might be familiar with placing a sand bag or other weights on the rear of the vehicle, particularly with rear drive ones- to improve traction over the rear wheels.
Pick up trucks tend to be rear wheel drive or four wheel drive with rear wheel native bias, and unladen the large empty bed in the rear tends to be light which reduces available traction. As the rear is loaded, or a trailer etc. placed on the rear- the rear is pulled down increasing traction as the load increases (to a point.)
The newer Ford trucks tend to use an aluminum frame- with the primary weight in the rear of a pickup being the frame, the bed itself, and possibly a fuel tank. The lighter weight- a measure for improving fuel economy and maximum load limits in newer trucks- translates to a greater mechanical traction disadvantage unladen vs. older trucks.
To say the cyber truck has any advantage in mechanical traction however- we’d need to know component placement like batteries and component weight as well as tire size, suspension design, and a few other questions.
If we assume that the Cybertruck has similar battery mounting to other Tesla vehicles- the battery weight is spread over the vehicle and low- adding to a low center of gravity which itself can aid mechanical traction. When talking about “pulling power” it DOES ultimately come down to traction. An engine with even 100hp and 90lbs of torque can pull a truck with the right earring and traction. Probably not well- and certainly not good for the longevity of the poor thing- but assuming a weight of 4,000-6,000lbs- the small electric motors on winches and even sub 1.0 liter (1,000cc) internal combustion engines can pull that sort of weight- especially if it is on wheels
But it’s academic really. Or... irrelevant. Regardless of what advantages the cybertruck may have in traction- those advantages translate into real world performance (theoretically) and so pointing out the cybertruck won due to design advantage is like pointing out that a F1 car only was faster than your mom’s Camry because it has a better design for racing. Well... yes. That is why when race teams build cars for racing they don’t generally use a factory Camry as a platform.
That said- we could also call it irrelevant because as said- a vehicle much smaller, with less power, can tow a larger more powerful vehicle or “drag” it along provided the smaller vehicle has superior traction. Meaning that showing a truck “tugging” another truck is inconclusive for real world performance.
Think of it this way- Ford has shown their trucks being able to pull the load of an 18 wheeler (semi truck aka tractor)- so why do most fleets still use large trucks that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars or more instead of Ford F250’s? Well- it can haul a light or average tractor load- not a large one- and after maybe a day or so of doing that the truck would be dead.
Translated and simplified- a Honda Civic will tow a motorhome. It won’t do it safely and the car won’t last long. So showing a civic towing a motorhome doesn’t prove it’s as good a truck as a Ram2500. That’s physics. Just about any car will tow something big and heavy at least once and at least a few feet.
Really it’s just a stunt however you want to frame it. It looks impressive and is a way to show “see look- we beat this other one. Stronger. Grrrr.” That doesn’t mean the cyber truck isn’t a good truck. The rated towing capacity of a truck is a good indicator of performance- but real world reviews and feedback from experience of others using the truck for what you plan to- or similar- is the trap test. How many people plan to regularly use their truck for tug of wars?
I once had a friend who was looking at a truck- liked everything about it. But he was thinking of another truck because the rated towing of the other truck was 1,000lbs more. I asked him- “what do you need to tow?” His reply? “Well... maybe like a uhaul trailer or my bikes...” well gee man. A freaking Crossover SUV will handle bikes forever and an occasional uhual just fine. If your truck can haul what you need and keep up to speed and not get beat to death doing it- you’re fine.
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TLDR: Given enough traction, a small vehicle can pull a huge load for at least a small distance - so that's not a great measure for the vehicle's overall performance.
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· 4 years ago
_guest can generate impressive comment threads- and do so effectively alone as opposed to most users who tend to need at least one other user even on “trending” posts to see peak comment quantity.
ok first get ride of the frame and wheels and all and go just motor to motor. second how do they compare in the long run. how efficient is it? how much are you emptying the battery compared to the gas tank. diesel-powered dump truck carries 40 tons every day how will electric hold up with wear and tear. and torque isn't everything. i could hollow out a log fill it with gun powder and its a rocket with more torque than both vehicles combined but only for about 30 seconds. basically i could make a 1980 vw bug pull both of these vehicles if i built it right but that doesn't mean the vw is the better car.
There are some very good questions here. I’d say a motor to motor comparison however isn’t a decent test. The Corvette and the Trail blazer have had the same motor but offer very different driving experiences and abilities as well as performance. What’s more- the gearing and effective final drive of a motor effect its performance. Tesla’s generally do not use a “transmission” because the electric motor doesn’t need the torque multiplication or to be kept within a power band using gearing. There is also power/torque loss through drive train. So the Tesla motor on a bench will produce closer to the actual “applied at the ground” performance an end user would see than the Ford engine which will be disadvantaged by not being allowed gearing- but advantaged by not being subject to drive train loss. So the “real world” abilities of the Ford will in part be related to drive train.
The “engine to engine” gives one an indication of maximum capability at 1:1 ratio and can be considered where better metrics aren’t available of course- but as stated- engine power is only a small part of the equation. Classic Porsche’s, Lotus cars, of course the early Skyline GTR, Mazda RX-2/3, and Datsun Bluebird (510) are all examples of cars which have proven consistent racing championships over more powerful rivals due to design. In truck terms and towing absolute work limits are more important- but the overall package and design of the chassis, suspension, driveline etc. will have a huge impact on both absolute performance moving given loads of given types in given scenarios- as well as in driving characteristics and longevity/capabilities.
TLDR: Given enough traction, a small vehicle can pull a huge load for at least a small distance - so that's not a great measure for the vehicle's overall performance.