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guest_
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
Do remember him. And others. It saddens me that when we talk about things like race in America- so many are unaware or forget that there have been, leading all the way into the late 20th century; and many say still are, organized programs from government organizations specifically geared to the subjugation and destabilization of minority and poor communities in the United States.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The war on drugs was started after the government successfully funneled drugs and alcohol into inner city minority communities to destabilize them and keep them from leveraging the even playing field that had been created in law. These drugs spilled into suburban and upper class (primarily white) neighborhoods- as did crime relating to drugs as gentrification brought these worlds closer together- and created what was THEN labeled an epidemic.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The state of California started its harsh anti guns laws as a response to the Black Panther movement- which started as a community organization and organized militia- legal, law abiding, self defense and community policing both against white police abuse, and because the police wouldn’t adequately do anything to stabilize local communities against gangs and drugs etc. open carry was outlawed in California to stop the panthers from having weapons- to disarm them. Other gun laws we see were likewise originally made in such a way to effect minorities more than upper class whites by statistical basis.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
In the history of its gun activism and some truly crazy advocacies for far out gun rights- the NRA actually SUPPORTED the California laws that revoked open carry. They don’t print that in their fund raiser drives. Why? Because minorities with guns wasn’t what the NRA wanted. It was the best way for them to avoid the negative attention falling on all guns and gun owners (gee- that worked out swell for them in California didn’t it...?)
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The CIA and FBI not only conducted intelligence operations on the panthers- they inserted counter agents into the organization to introduce drugs and crime, and fan the flames of extremism so that the organization could be declared a public menace. The transformation of the black panthers from a community organization and political activist group to a criminal/terrorist organization was literally orchestrated by the government- as was their destruction an engineered process.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Now- this isn’t some formalized plan that the presidents and senators get together on (realistically) but it IS groups of likeminded and powerful people in the government, using government resources and power against American citizens. So it may not be that “the government is in on it..” and just more that there are enough powerful people in our government and corporate structures who all want to keep minorities down.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Sound crazy? Read that meme again. This is something that happened. These things happened. Realize that when the scandal came to light- nothing really happened. Realize that when the CIA funneled devs into America to fund illegal weapons in the Iran contra scandal- that the entire government and media pinned it on Oliver North- who’s punishment was to become a best selling author and public speaker, work as a consultant, and then get a job as a media news reporter. The man that helped cover up Iran Contra... is a reporter.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
It is fucking crazy- but that doesn’t mean it isn’t real. So remember this, all this, and maybe go read more like this- when we talk about things like race in America.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
And then- if you imagine that being you and your family- maybe you’ll understand why a whole lot of people are posses off- sometimes irrationally and indiscriminately pissed off- frustrated and desperately lashing out looking for ANY victory. The next time you don’t understand why something “small” is such a big deal to the “sjw’s” remember this. It’s a big deal because the government can be caught literally doing what the Brits did to China in the opium war- except to its own citizens- and most people don’t care or even remember.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Remember that “little things” become a lot bigger when one of the largest cities in the country can explode in riots when a man is beaten senselessly in the street and the men who did it get off- when they were caught on video- and then almost 30 years later you still have riots because instead of ending police beatings- now they are shooting. 30 years of legal battles and activism and public awareness to a problem- and it isn’t fixed. If you can’t stop that in 30 years after hundreds of millions, billions, in riots and boycotts and law suits.... wouldn’t you think that “overkill” on a “small” issue doesn’t exist? It takes more to eat less for some folks.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
How many little cute white Blonde Girls has to die to get Megan’s law...? 1. Megan. How many black people have been MURDERED by police this year? It’s only June. How many last year? A man was murdered while lying on his back with his hands in the air. There is no justification for that. A woman murdered in her bed at 12am- who wasn’t even a criminal- she just lived at the address a guys mail came to. Come on man. End rant.
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lucky11
· 4 years ago
Last year, 2019, the people fatally shot by cops numbered by race: 370 white, 235 black, 158 Hispanic, 202 unknown, and 39 other. Unarmed people shot by police in the line of duty: 20 white, 10 black, 6 Hispanic, 4 other, and 1 unknown. These don't reflect anyone killed by use of something other than a gun. There are over 800,000 sworn police officers in the country. There's obviously a few bad police officers spread throughout the country but let's avoid pointing a finger at a group of people, most of which are not the problem, because of a few bad eggs. I'm not saying there shouldn't be changes to law enforcement. In fact I'd advocate several sweeping changes that would help significantly.
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Edited 4 years ago
lucky11
· 4 years ago
We should do away with police unions and make it a merit based system. Training should be mandatory, and paid, with at least 8hrs of a 40hr week dedicated to unarmed and hostile takedown. Mandatory quarterly physical evaluations involving stringent physical standards. Yes, this means the physical standards would be a flat rate, not gender based, and you either meet them or don't and can't be a police officer. This isn't about equality of gender or whatever, this is about protecting the public as safely as possible that includes any and all suspects. The reason police have to use a gun or taser is because they are completely unable to subdue a suspect safely. A 120-130lb female officer is not going to be able to subdue a 230lb male assailant without resorting to more violent or lethal means. An overweight officer is not going to be able to keep up with/overtake an unarmored suspect this means they either have to let them go or shoot them to get them to stop.
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Edited 4 years ago
lucky11
· 4 years ago
These are just a couple of changes that would drastically overhaul the police and make them more able to do their job much more safely for not only themselves but everyone else. It's stupid how little training overall goes on in police departments. These are some of the hardest worked group of people in the country and they're given little training or help. The average US ARMY infantry soldier is in some kind of training, while not on deployment, five days a week. Then if they do deploy they can fall back on their training to get the job/mission done as safely as possible and come home. Why is it we can't even have our police training a single day of the week when they are arguably "deployed" for most of the year?
guest_
· 4 years ago
I won’t discuss the statistics- that’s a long separate conversation. I will say- the number of people killed by group is a metric often used to show there is no bias- the failure of that logic is this: if the allies killed as many German soldiers as the Germans killed Jews- does that mean the Holocaust was not biased? No. Obviously not. The primary failing of the use of flat figures in officer use of force- is that it does not tell us how many f those uses were JUSTIFIED and or PROPORTIONAL. Just the same as a flat statistic of incarceration by race doesn’t tell us by itself wether the system is bias, certain races are more prone to crime (or getting caught) and what reasons are behind any of it.
guest_
· 4 years ago
So statistics asides- I think we agree that plenty of not most police are decent humans trying to protect their communities and themselves- but that major overhauls and policy changes are needed to get from where we are to where we want to be as a society. “Perfect” doesn’t really exist- but “better” certainly does.
guest_
· 4 years ago
I’m mixed on the unions. They can be an evil, but they can also sometimes be a necessary one. Soldiers don’t have a union- but they also suffer certain things they shouldn’t because they don’t really have that advocacy at the individual level. At the least some reforms are in order wether the unions stay or go.
guest_
· 4 years ago
I cannot fully agree on the CQB training. I think you are right- I’ve worlds with and known quite a few officers and my closest longest friend was one as are several family members. They would agree- many officers do not train adequately- physical condition is a big one as is equipment. I had a cop friend who used to buy the training ammo from fellow officers and use it/sell it at the range because most of them only shot enough for the basic and sporadic needs to qualify.
guest_
· 4 years ago
So more training- yes. Stricter standards and practices, and routine enforcement and reinforcement of the training to higher standards. Yes. But I don’t think there should be one physics standard first off. They’re cops- not soldiers. Hell- even the military admitted that their standards are stupid. Never seen a squad in the field hump Miles in their skivvies at a run. Full kit walking for 20 Miles? Oh yeah. That’s realistic. But next to perhaps SOF or a Tom Clancy scenario- what PFC is out making or breaking a battle on pull ups?
guest_
· 4 years ago
So FUNCTIONAL physical standards- which for police would mostly be about unarmed defense and PROPER restraint, and endurance based such as the ability to run several blocks at a good clip- I could see needing. As for “dragging a comrade out of harms way..” I don’t see that being a standard. It’s a plus- but if that’s a necessary requirement- we may as well just use soldiers to enforce the law at that point.
guest_
· 4 years ago
And on that subject- I’d like to see requirements for police l/peace officer specific psychology and conflict resolution be a major focus. Above even the “martial” skills. That is something I think hours of training a week should go to that- and hundreds of hours in the academy or before admission.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Police aren’t the military. The military in general has a spotty record when it comes to how many civilians get hurt when they are called in to deal with threats. Even hostage rescue specialists have a spotty record- no slight to them- the situation when dealing with histories mixed with non combatants- the variables and so on- to have as good a record as they do is incredible- but it’s not acceptable for civilian law enforcement to say “we put down more bad guys than good guys and innocents!”
guest_
· 4 years ago
Jil Ulmer was fatally shot by a well meaning police officer called to her house when her violent ex attacked her. Bad aim. But- Likun Sahilu was SAVED by bad aim when he was robbed, and officers showed up and opened fire on him- missing with 8 shots from about 50 feet. Had the officer had better aim- Sahilu would be dead.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Personally- I say take the guns away. Not completely. CERTAIN officers who qualify and pass stringent tests, and possibly carry their own insurance, could have side arms when and where their command signed off it was believed prudent. However- most “beat” cops? No side arms. A pistol exists solely to be easily carried and concealed, and kill human beings from slightly further away than a sword. “I thought my gun was my taser..” well- shut happens. Even with training. It’s too easy to grab your sidearm. Cops are human. They don’t want to die. If you’re scared and have a gun- chances are you’ll use it unless you’re so scared you freeze.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Keep long arms locked in the car and logged. Officers responding to calls deemed high risk can preemptively get their riffles. Officers in a situation where things went bad can go get their rifles or call for backup. Of things go REALLY bad they can call swat- who is SUPPOSED to be the “tactical” special purpose arm of the police- not the average community officer. If it goes REALLY REALLY bad- call the national guard like they would today. An anyone who says that’s crazy better not be someone who’s ever said “you don’t need a gun! Call the police.” Well- if WE can wait for the police- the police can wait for the other police or walk to the car and get a rifle.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Everyone is more scared of their neighbor owning a gun than they are of a police force using military equipment and training using military tactics... to deal with civilians. Police do face gangs and drug dealers and crazy people. But that’s a small part of their job. They police. They serve the community. That is their MAIN job. A cop showing up out of nowhere isn’t going to know the situation better than the intended victim of a crime- and that’s a fact.
guest_
· 4 years ago
“You can’t take their guns! Even routine calls can become violent suddenly!” Oh yeah? Really? Violence- a threat so great it justifies a police officer needing to have a pistol on heir hip and potentially use deadly force- can just happen out of nowhere and not the officer or the dispatcher or anyone of those professionals could predict it? Then... why are we pushing so hard to take everyone else’s right to carry away? If the guy the cops need a gun for was at the grocery store with you- and could snap at any moment... why aren’t you armed for your protection too?
guest_
· 4 years ago
Enough of that. The point as it goes to police- is that we just need to take guns from cops who don’t need them. Not “I might need it!” No. Need as in you have, routinely, in your duties, discharged your weapon on a regular basis while protecting the public, or a specific and actionable threat you can articulate to me before leaving with your gun- that would justify if.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Let narcotics deal with narcotics. Maybe they need guns for all the types they are likely to face. Maybe a special gang task force or department needs guns when working the street (maybe..) but the meter maid... no. The traffic cop... not so much. If they pull you over and your plate comes back a felon or suspicious- unlock the long gun. There is now clear intent, pre meditation that they went in to the situation planning to need a weapon- and that will be considered should things go poorly.
guest_
· 4 years ago
And lastly- guy qualified immunity. We need some measure of it- a protection for officers against being held liable for natural consequences of others stupidity and the lawful and appropriate discharge of the officers duty- but hell yes cops should be criminally and civilly liable for anything seems excessive, unwarranted, or outside their duties.
guest_
· 4 years ago
The problem is- if we only hired the best, or those who met high standards- if we completely vetted each candidates history and psychology and rejected those who seemed like they could be a problem... well... asides the costs of all that, the time, and the need to pay them an elite salary... the few thousands cops we would have for the entire country who wanted the job and were qualified... they’d be stretched pretty thin.
guest_
· 4 years ago
You aren’t doing neighborhood patrols or handing out citations because you are the zenith of human judgment and potential. Not a lot of guys working their 10th+ year in a black and white because that job as a rocket scientist or a federal judge lacked the excitement of long, largely uneventful patrols- or because of the joys of dealing with the public closely while writing tickets. (Although some actually ARE there by choice and have “larger” prospects but like that work..)
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Edited 4 years ago
guest_
· 4 years ago
Fact is- what separates most any one you see on the street from having a badge or not is a community college program that requires less hours than a beautician to get certified as GTG. The fact is that there are some common psychological profiles of a person that will take on a job like law enforcement and the reasons why people do it- and the fact is... many (not most, not all) of those profiles suggest a person who is not the ideal candidate to put in a role as someone who is a servant to others.
guest_
· 4 years ago
But that’s the reform we need- however the details work out- police aren’t soldiers. They aren’t even guardians. They are servants. Their job is to serve and protect. They need to be able to protect- but we tend to emphasize that over the serve part. If they don’t serve first and foremost- they aren’t protecting you. You are dispensing violence for their own reasons. To protect someone for their benefit requires you to serve them. We also need to pull cops from the communities they serve- make residency requirements- make sure they are part of the community and have a stake in it and understand it and know it. Public servants. As the public- I don’t require my servants to be armed unless the circumstances call for it. My servants should be diplomatic, courteous, and able enough to avoid use of force whenever possible.
deleted
· 4 years ago
Sometimes people die for nothing fam. Sucks.
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fluffydress
· 4 years ago
Also look up the Sackler family and the opioid crisis.
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harperfan7
· 4 years ago
Jews and psychopaths. Their time is coming; technology is reducing their ability to hide and blend in.
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