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deleted
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
For the last fucking time, protests don't equal a proto-civil war.
guest_
· 4 years ago
I get what you’re saying and largely agree. That said- while it’s a tad hyperbolic to speak of civil war- I think that if we make references to America starting another civil war- protests and riots are just one aspect of a larger picture in which deep idealogical and other divides are forming between Americans. A great deal of Americans legitimately believe that the sitting President is wrongfully in his position, put there by faithless electors in the second largest instance of organized elector defection in history along with other factors; and who they believe should have legally been impeached but was not, for political and personal politics of the few vs the laws and integrity of the land* (not saying these are facts- I am saying many feel this way.)
guest_
· 4 years ago
So there are ALOT of people who dislike the POTUS inside the country. His politics, what he stands for, and see a good deal of his administration and acting party members as goons or thugs- toadies. Now a great number of people believe the POTUS to be doing a great job, not doing the wrongs accuses of, they interpret the results of the impeachment hearings differently and don’t think he should be ousted. They are happy to see the coherency of Larry members and believe that level of cooperation will allow these people, working together, to make great changes.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But there are DEEP issues between many Americans right now. Issues like race- which have been a major part of this Presidents tenure- from campaign promises about immigration and building literal walls, to his and the administrations handling or and response to situations like the most recent string of police shootings and people’s reactions.
guest_
· 4 years ago
I doubt we would actually have a civil war any time soon. But- where rising tensions go unchecked or even the flames are fanned, which the present administration is less about diplomacy in that sense and more about pushing harder, the risk exists. Now or in the future. Many of the nations more liberal or progressive citizens feel they aren’t being represented not just by the president, but by the government right now. They feel like rights are being trampled, things taken away. That’s not enough to start a civil war, but we have the embers for one. If not a war of armies than certain a war of cultures. A civil “Cold War” if you will- of economics and sanctions and such.
guest_
· 4 years ago
But we’ve had several threats that federal troops or agents would be dispatched wether states wanted it or not- because the feds don’t like the way the states are doing things and the states don’t like the way the feds are doing things. An unprecedented number of states refusing to enforce or comply with lawful federal orders or countermanding them or the authority of the administration. There’s a lot of friction and say Federal enforcers were sent and a state refused to allow them entry? That could escalate very quickly if neither side backed down. Unlikely to happen- but it IS possible.
guest_
· 4 years ago
Tl:dr- civil war may be more than a tad hyperbolic- and premature. But we do have the makings for and the conditions for a civil war to occur, or some form of insurrection- if things continue to escalate and the divide between citizens, between states and federal governments, between political parties and between the people and their elected officials continues to deepen and faith in the systems ability to represent the people and resist abuse and manipulation erodes. I don’t care who gets elected in 2020 more or less so long as it is someone who can begin to heal some of these divides and stop this erosion. No matter how good we think a person may be at management or how much we like their policies- a good leader is more than that.
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Edited 4 years ago
guest_
· 4 years ago
A good leader inspires people to follow and brings together teams to achieve common goals. We do not have a leader who can make America a team right now. We are a country divided- not so much so yet that we have to go to war, but it will be at least a generation before we undo the hurt feelings of the last 4 years.
snowbeast
· 4 years ago
I cannot upvote this enough @guest_ at least I negated the downvote.
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Edited 4 years ago
guest_
· 4 years ago
Thank you @snowbeast. Some people don’t like the truth. It’s unlikely any president or leader will ever have 100% support. It’s certainly unlikely any of them- especially a good leader will make calls everyone always likes. But our current president cannot even unite America against an enemy- the most basic human behavior and lowest hanging political fruit- and from Syria to Russia, China, riots, protests, a freaking pandemic- all the threats and potential threats the nation has faced these past few years- and the current administration can’t even get people to rally together against common enemies.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
I’m not trashing the guy. He’s done some things that a lot of people agree with, and things he doesn’t get credit for. But many of the same people who were and still are rabidly defending any truthful criticism are saying they plan to vote for someone else- even if they don’t know who yet. He isn’t a good leader. He MAY be a good DOER- he MAY arguably be a person who can accomplish what THEY want done. But nothing about him or his history or performance in office suggests a good leader- beyond that things haven’t completely fallen apart under him.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Fallen apart enough that we are here discussing seriously wether civil war is on the table. Fallen apart enough that the feds have sent or considered sending troops to major cities multiple times to quell unrest... but no nuclear war or total economic collapse yet. But in my book, not running things totally into the ground and being a good leader aren’t the same.
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snowbeast
· 4 years ago
I'm too tired to respond properly, so I will simply state that I concur. I have been convinced since George W. Bush's 2nd term that the political polarization of the US is not only increasing, but doing so at an insurmountable rate. I do not consider that any president since Reagan has had impressive skill in unification (and he had a fantastically easy external foe). I have been bandying the phrase civil war about for several years, much to my peers' amusement and disdain. I fear war, dissolution or major government shift is unavoidable (although it may take another 15 years to come to a head), unless the US creates a unifying external foe again. Wait, is that Xi Jinping waiting in the wings?
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Yes. Get some rest. No pressure to respond- and while I don’t want to seem like a conspiracy buff- with all the talk of foreign actors and evidence- I wonder how much of this stuff and who, is directly or second hand dancing to their tune. They don’t need to conquer us- likely too much work. Just need us to fall a few pegs. Reagan- many people STILL hate his policies- but... he did unify the nation. People liked him even if they didn’t like him in office. He had vehement detractors but for the most part, it was standard roll your eyes politics on things people didn’t like- not people at each other’s throats. Reagan was a strong leader wether people liked his policies and actions- he inspired and took the country in one direction.
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