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guest_
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
I don’t know that I’d call that the easy way- that’s... how you turn a bike above very low speeds. If you turn the bars to turn, the bike will wipe out. Physics of 2 wheels. Lean and counter steer. The extreme angles and knee drops are an extreme exaggeration of the standard operation, but more or less how a motorcycle is turned.
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iccarus
· 4 years ago
you're missing a lot from the gif, the begining, both under heavy brakes which lift the rear wheel, the rider in behind, got in a better position to overtake and come out in front upon the exit. The skills required, plus the nerves not to freakout at both the speed and close proximity far exceeds what most riders, or people are capable of.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
My language was more clinical than yours, but I was in no way implying that what is being done here isn’t a huge task of skill and experience on a motorcycle. What I’m saying is that while this is certainly not an easy feat, it also isn’t the “easy way” or the “hard way” to turn. It is more or less the only way to turn, especially at those types of speeds. What you are seeing, apart from motor skills and practice, is the advanced application of fundamental riding skills and understanding of the physics of how to operate a motorcycle.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Like most anything, the mechanical skills of operating a motorcycle well lie in the fundamentals (there are other components to being a good rider like awareness etc- but to the point of operating the machine is all I speak.) fundamentals are seldom glamorous. Someone just learning or intermediate on doing a stunt like a wheelie or stopie will turn more random heads than someone practicing at the limit braking or proper body position in a turn would at low and intermediate skill levels. Practical riding skills are less glamorous and flashy as you build them than stunts and spectacles that are often learned by people more on bravado and foolish abandon than on discipline and measures incremental improvement.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
At the higher levels of mastery however, as we see in this gif, practical application of fundamental riding skills can be a ballet, and an impressive spectacle; and even for those not looking to race or impress, these fundamentals save lives. Most often the riders life.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So no, I did not explain the in depth physics of a motorcycle. I merely mentioned that all you are seeing is the inherent behavior of a two wheeled vehicle being driven near the limits in what is really the only way it should be. There’s a lot more to a bug out in a jet than pegging the throttle and pegging the stick- but when you see a jet fighter perform this maneuver what you are seeing is an operator with a skilled grasp of fundamentals doing the only logic things an operator can do to keep their craft within its operating limits for the prescribed maneuver.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
We could break down every minute shift of the bike, why it does it, every minute movement of the riders body and how or why physics makes that work. Discuss the slip angle and why one must counter steer (which to many non or new, and even some experienced riders seeks counter intuitive and isn’t understood- but works..) we could discuss the basics of physics on a vehicle suspension, how the rear wheel comes up because braking force at the corner entrance causes weight to shift the front of the vehicle as G forces are applied parallel the acceleration. How the front springs load up- compress, as the rears decompress as the load shifts- and the effect that has on the tires traction surface moment to moment and the interactions of forces like inertia and centrifugal force etc on the unsprung weight of the vehicle.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
How allowing a moment to “settle” the bike in, changing rider position to help get the rear weighted, and how a firm but gradual- smooth, application of throttle correctly timed in sequence will help regain rear traction. We could discuss how whole all this is going on, the rider is making every effort to “tuck,” to keep their body behind fairings as much as possible and minimize the drag created by their body by diminishing their aerodynamic cross section- but also must position their body in such a way to influence the weight balance and or create a sort of pendulum counter balance to the bike. We could discuss the muscles that are used and how one maintains contact with the bike using mostly their body, as one generally shouldn’t be “holding on by the handlebars” because the hands need to be loose enough to make fine adjustments to controls, the arms must be loose enough to make fine and quick adjustments to the front wheel position.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
We could discuss how at this same time, while we are braking into the turn, we are braking, and downshifting in sequence, while generally working the throttle, brakes, shift pedal, and usually but not always the clutch, timing our gear changes and throttle work to match the engine revolution speed to the wheel revolution speed in order to not upset the balance of the vehicle or cause the rear wheel to lock, but to keep power available to accelerate on demand.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
We could discuss racing lines, corner entry, corner apex and exit. We could discuss different strategies and how they are applied here as far as selecting our braking zones, late braking, early apex, late apex, using slip angle to scrub speed vs using braking power, the controversial subject of engine braking on the track, we could throw out all the ABC saying used to instill proper racing and control- “brakes are like a credit card, they cost you every time you use them..” “slow in fast out” “outside inside outside” “slow is fast” “always be looking at least two turns ahead...” and we could discuss what those things mean and how this rider is doing all of them at once while doing everything else we mentioned earlier. BUT....
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Conclusion and TL:Dr- it would have been a really freaking long post to get in to all of that. I only MENTION that stuff here without getting in to details and well... that was pretty long no? So I chose to skip the in depth in the interest of brevity, and it seems that doing so caused misunderstanding. Hence why my posts are often so long. But the short version of everything I just said can be found in my original comment. I’m not saying what is being done doesn’t take skill. I’m saying that it isn’t the “easy way” or the “hard way.” If you want to ride that fast and not die- what you are seeing is basically the ONLY way- done well yes. But the physics of bikes say that is how it is done. My subtle and missed message was- practice your fundamentals if you want to ride. It isn’t glamorous and flashy, especially at first, but the fundamentals are important. If you panic brake and your rear leaves the ground in traffic or on the street- you probably won’t be as graceful as this guy...
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guest_
· 4 years ago
... but you’d use the same physics and the same basic techniques (applied likely more hamfistedly) to save your own life. The same things that he’s applying to this turn, can all mostly be applied to any turn on your bike- hopefully not nearly that fast on the street, and hopefully no where near the limits of control like this is- but panic maneuvers tend to happen at the limit of control, and the limit of control is where you survive with either luck and reflexes, or skill and solid fundamentals. Learn the fundamentals. Practice them.
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tlbomb
· 4 years ago
marquez is a beast