Right? People for too long have been content to ignore their own eyes and believe whatever "trusted media" puts out.
It blew my mind while I was coming of age, to see my hometown in flames, violence in the streets, political persecution running rampant. Only to tune into legacy media and hear every single reporter celebrating the "Summer of love". Like NPCs following a script in a 2003 RPG. Telling you to go on enjoy a hike in Central Oregon (masks on while walking in the woods, of course) while courthouses burned and precincts were actually seized from the United States, nevermind parts of entire cities.
Dump your programming my guys, believe your eyes and trust your own experiences.
isn’t that part of the problem- or most of it? you See things burn and be destroyed… but someone living in Florida or even Otjer parts of Oregon didn’t see the court house in Oregon burn. They may say: “in my experience- I’ve never seen something like that and find it hard to believe…” wouldn’t they have to take your word and experience over their own experiences or the word of someone else who says: “it wasn’t that bad…”
The start of your post or comments like ones made about “voting Putin out of office” could be viewed as sarcasm- or certain funsubers view such comments as “disingenuous,” at least when made by others. So we have an example of subjectivity right here as well- what we see and what we choose to see or call out in some cases may differ when our bias suits us.
It was photographed. Recorded. Livestreamed. Bragged about.
I'm not having any conversation with a person who would try to ignore what cannot be disputed.
Oh my goodness, @guest_, it seems you accomplished the impossible: you got f******one to shut up. Though we should probably see if you also managed to subdue his compulsion to always have the last word.
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Also, it seems the "free thinker" believes there are things which "cannot be disputed". And here I thought everything was up for discussion.
@famousone- I believe you misunderstand my questions. To be clear- I never said I would try to ignore what cannot be disputed. I asked you how would you reconcile the seeming paradox of trusting your own experiences against trusting others and sources like media- which includes social media and photos or videos from others?
We both know things can be doctored or taken out of context- a popular photos some years back was one where a soldier in the Middle East appeared to be holding a civilian as though an execution was about to occur- but this photo was simply cropped and the full photo reveals soldiers helping a man. Photos and eyewitnesses said the inauguration of president Trump was empty, and packed.
People living in Ontario and police report a trucker convoy was disruptive and destructive while others say it was 99% lawful and peaceful.
I was asking for your specific opinion in regards to your comments on how to reconcile such things.
@happy_frog- sadly for me, I was asking genuine questions and was hoping there might be a discussion had.
It seems of late a hard thing to do, but I’d hope if someone felt strongly or informed enough to public ally post their opinions they’d feel strongly or informed enough to discuss the issue. I suppose sometimes things are just a proclamation and not a conversation. That itself is an interesting angle poignant to this conversation- but I suppose in a way this IS an answer to my question of how one suggests reconciling the seeming conflict - ignore that which conflicts or challenges your original views, or attack the credibility of those with different views.
Wether that is agreeable or not- it may be the only answer we will get.
@guest_ It seems his compulsion remains. But at least you've reduced him to one letter. So that's still progress.
And yes, it's fairly obvious to me and I'm sure to other people that these users don't actually care about honest debate but about pushing their own views on others.
Sadly, they have somewhat of a clique and they enable each other's toxic behaviour. It's rather surprising that no one has done anything about this yet.
@happy_frog- lol. I think it can be perspective- I’m sure that as famousones comments suggest- some feel that other users who don’t share their worldviews are a “toxic clique.”
I think that there is room for discussion of such things, but it only works when everyone is willing to discuss.
I guess everyone is just looking for a place where they can feel heard or share their joys and fears with others. Forums with subs and such allow people to find their “comfort zone” where they are relatively free to exist in an echo chamber of like minded folk.
Such spaces seem more ideal than mixed forums for people who don’t want to discuss view points or don’t want to see differing opinions or face challenges- so I assume if someone is here speaking opinions they are open to discussion or they’d be in a dedicated forum for like minded people. Having different perspectives and opinions is something I like about funsub and that helps me grow and learn.
I guess everyone is the “bad guy” in someone’s story and the “good guy” in someone else’s. Even a genocidal dictator or a “saint” is all a matter of perspective. I think a key is to not taking it personally when our ideas or values are shared by others. Except in extreme cases there is usually some ground where everyone can coexist, and that ground is usually found through talking and challenging ideas and conceptions. I enjoy it when people make compelling and logic or fact based challenges to my own ideas. Even if not swayed, it gives me something to consider. Of course- we are all different. To each their own I suppose, as long as we aren’t being abusive and are trying to add something of value I think it works out.
Aw, he thinks I'm in an echo chamber?
Sorry projector, I'm the only Nazi-Trumptard-White-Tucker-Freedumb-lover-who-got-kicked-out-of-the-army-plague-bearer-angel-of-death-wingnut-shameless-who-will-never-have-a-special-someone in my circle.
@famousone- I don’t think you are an echo chamber and I did not say or imply you were. I said that other forums or subs made for a specific way of thinking can be echo chambers.
I am not sure how you got time calling you an echo chamber from that. If you can find the text you believe refers to you
As an “echo chamber” that could help explain things- but unless there is a typo I didn’t notice, I assure you I did not call you an “echo chamber” nor was that my intent.
Also- did you get kicked out of the army? I was unaware- but I’ve been gone for awhile. If so, sorry to hear it and hope things are going well?
The rest of that I’m not really sure where it’s coming from and have no say in your self opinion- but I can’t really say I’d describe you as any of the adjectives you use there.
I appreciate the possible retraction as to the projection issue.
I can’t really control the tone which you choose to read in my writing in either, but am happy to clarify when a tone is assumed wether that was the intended tone or if there is just a difference in communication styles.
At the risk of sounding sarcastic, but meaning this plainly- I would say that the tone of my writing really isn’t my problem either, as I have no problems with it.
So if it isn’t my problem, and it isn’t your problem… I suppose as far as the two of us- it wouldn’t be a problem, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I can’t really know how you “hear” or interpret something unless you tell me what you are hearing or why it bothers you.
Without body language and such, we can’t really know what other people think or feel unless we use our words.
Im around to talk, or to leave as is; whatever best suits your prerogatives, though if something is bothering you I’d like to try and work on it.
@happy_frog- it was mighty big of famousone to make that concession and I appreciate it. I’m certainly not perfect myself, and imperfections are what make us all different, so at some point there are those things about ourselves that we just have to say are part of who we are. It’s a sticky thing where to draw the line, but if we can keep having productive discussions maybe I can change some things about myself or how I communicate too. I’ve been making an effort to not multipost in threads so much- but I’ve done it a few times today lol. I’ll take my baby steps and backslide here and there I’m sure- but it’s a process. Doesn’t happen over night.
@guest_ No no, please don't feel the need hold back. After all these people are all about the free flow of information. And I certainly appreciate your service.
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You kinda remind me of Columbo in a way. I don't know if you're familiar with him.
@happy_frog- lol. I remember Columbo. There’s an old chestnut right there. I can’t quite recall the last time I’ve heard a Columbo reference- but I know it’s been awhile.
I only know about him because, for some reason, YouTube has been recommending me Columbo clips.
The way he calmy and politely picks apart perps and unravels their lies is very reminiscent of how you confront toxic users on this site.
I know it's not your intent but it's still very amusing and cathartic to watch.
I will say that while I didn’t take it as an insult at all- it was historically not a flattering reference when someone likened a person to Columbo lol. I get your meaning though and no offense taken, I just had a little chuckle at the fact and thought I’d share.
It blew my mind while I was coming of age, to see my hometown in flames, violence in the streets, political persecution running rampant. Only to tune into legacy media and hear every single reporter celebrating the "Summer of love". Like NPCs following a script in a 2003 RPG. Telling you to go on enjoy a hike in Central Oregon (masks on while walking in the woods, of course) while courthouses burned and precincts were actually seized from the United States, nevermind parts of entire cities.
Dump your programming my guys, believe your eyes and trust your own experiences.
The start of your post or comments like ones made about “voting Putin out of office” could be viewed as sarcasm- or certain funsubers view such comments as “disingenuous,” at least when made by others. So we have an example of subjectivity right here as well- what we see and what we choose to see or call out in some cases may differ when our bias suits us.
I'm not having any conversation with a person who would try to ignore what cannot be disputed.
*
Also, it seems the "free thinker" believes there are things which "cannot be disputed". And here I thought everything was up for discussion.
We both know things can be doctored or taken out of context- a popular photos some years back was one where a soldier in the Middle East appeared to be holding a civilian as though an execution was about to occur- but this photo was simply cropped and the full photo reveals soldiers helping a man. Photos and eyewitnesses said the inauguration of president Trump was empty, and packed.
People living in Ontario and police report a trucker convoy was disruptive and destructive while others say it was 99% lawful and peaceful.
I was asking for your specific opinion in regards to your comments on how to reconcile such things.
It seems of late a hard thing to do, but I’d hope if someone felt strongly or informed enough to public ally post their opinions they’d feel strongly or informed enough to discuss the issue. I suppose sometimes things are just a proclamation and not a conversation. That itself is an interesting angle poignant to this conversation- but I suppose in a way this IS an answer to my question of how one suggests reconciling the seeming conflict - ignore that which conflicts or challenges your original views, or attack the credibility of those with different views.
Wether that is agreeable or not- it may be the only answer we will get.
And yes, it's fairly obvious to me and I'm sure to other people that these users don't actually care about honest debate but about pushing their own views on others.
Sadly, they have somewhat of a clique and they enable each other's toxic behaviour. It's rather surprising that no one has done anything about this yet.
I think that there is room for discussion of such things, but it only works when everyone is willing to discuss.
I guess everyone is just looking for a place where they can feel heard or share their joys and fears with others. Forums with subs and such allow people to find their “comfort zone” where they are relatively free to exist in an echo chamber of like minded folk.
Such spaces seem more ideal than mixed forums for people who don’t want to discuss view points or don’t want to see differing opinions or face challenges- so I assume if someone is here speaking opinions they are open to discussion or they’d be in a dedicated forum for like minded people. Having different perspectives and opinions is something I like about funsub and that helps me grow and learn.
Sorry projector, I'm the only Nazi-Trumptard-White-Tucker-Freedumb-lover-who-got-kicked-out-of-the-army-plague-bearer-angel-of-death-wingnut-shameless-who-will-never-have-a-special-someone in my circle.
I am not sure how you got time calling you an echo chamber from that. If you can find the text you believe refers to you
As an “echo chamber” that could help explain things- but unless there is a typo I didn’t notice, I assure you I did not call you an “echo chamber” nor was that my intent.
Also- did you get kicked out of the army? I was unaware- but I’ve been gone for awhile. If so, sorry to hear it and hope things are going well?
The rest of that I’m not really sure where it’s coming from and have no say in your self opinion- but I can’t really say I’d describe you as any of the adjectives you use there.
For you? If you can't hear the tone you type with, that ain't my problem.
I can’t really control the tone which you choose to read in my writing in either, but am happy to clarify when a tone is assumed wether that was the intended tone or if there is just a difference in communication styles.
At the risk of sounding sarcastic, but meaning this plainly- I would say that the tone of my writing really isn’t my problem either, as I have no problems with it.
So if it isn’t my problem, and it isn’t your problem… I suppose as far as the two of us- it wouldn’t be a problem, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I can’t really know how you “hear” or interpret something unless you tell me what you are hearing or why it bothers you.
Without body language and such, we can’t really know what other people think or feel unless we use our words.
Im around to talk, or to leave as is; whatever best suits your prerogatives, though if something is bothering you I’d like to try and work on it.
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You kinda remind me of Columbo in a way. I don't know if you're familiar with him.
The way he calmy and politely picks apart perps and unravels their lies is very reminiscent of how you confront toxic users on this site.
I know it's not your intent but it's still very amusing and cathartic to watch.