Without falling into the rabbit hole of defining “good,” I would say it is hard to be a good man in this day and age is accurate- in that it has always been hard to be a good man, if it weren’t difficult I’m sure the history books would be far thinner than they are and a lot less people would be upset over it.
I suppose that it may be harder than it ever has to appear to be a good man.
Technology has taken away quite a bit of the privacy and blind spots we had to hide our failings and faults- though to some degree where and when there were few people, finding places to hide things could be tough- but with life even in one’s home and perhaps head more open due to technology, and the myriad of temptations and opportunities to show imperfection of character, I’d say that on the whole the modern day does make it harder to hold the perception of a good man.
Of course it all depends. I won’t dive into the question of good so much as to say that the concept of a “good man” is inherently tied to social values and gender roles. In the late 1700’s most people would probably call someone who owned slaves a “good man” if they were otherwise to the standards of the day, but in 2023 owning slaves probably would disqualify you from being called a “good man” by anyone who was remotely qualified to make that judgment. So we do have to acknowledge that the overall bar is slightly higher. You can’t own slaves and be a good man, only profit from slave labor and be a “good man.” You can still strangely enough be a “good man” in many circles while being openly and flagrantly racist or bigoted- but it seems there is a general move away from that.
So it gets very complex and nuanced- there is what society generally considers a “good man” and usually some moral paragon of “goodness” few and likely no one attains. For example- giving away the shirt off your back and all your possessions to those in need is not only easy, but it fits many traditional models of “good.” Most people don’t want go give their stuff away, most want families and homes and comfort and excesses.
So the modern age can make it very difficult for someone to adhere to some traditional ideas of “goodness” while balancing out their personal desires.
Essentially, most of the time this is resolved in that most societies require a “good man” to exist in a place where they are not perceived as a burden (politicians and holy persons etc. often rely on others to survive but when and where they are seen as providing a value greater than they take they are considered good, and where people feel that politicians or holy persons etc. take more than they give- bad.)
And a place where the man is expected to be “selflessly selfish.” In other words- a “good man” in most places is one who isn’t seen as a burden but also isn’t completely selfish. He is expected to exercise some degree of self sufficiency and ambition but also expected to extend that he gains to at least a close group.
So in most societies if you are the “ultimate good man” who is above conflict and pettiness, who takes the burdens of others as your own, who always does what is right no matter the personal cost, who would and does literally give the short off his back… you probably will not do well in social standard or mating. A mate generally wants a man that prioritizes his “people,” and society wants that too.
Your mate will likely want to see a man who is capable of getting what he wants to some degree and who would use the ability to get what he wants to tend to their wants and the wants of offspring.
A community will generally view a man as a good man who uses their abilities to serve the community. A nation generally expects a good man to support the nation. There aren’t a lot of nations in history or the modern age that would say: “nah. You’re right. Our government lied and we were wrong here. You are a good man for exposing our dirty secrets and helping the enemy to stop our plans. We almost did something there that would have been bad. Thanks.”
So that is where being a “good man” most often means being a bad man. Outside of religion and such you are judged by other humans, humans who most likely are not super perfect people and are most likely primarily motivated by self interest. It is expected that as a general rule our morality bends to self interest more than self interest bends to morality.
So in the most self evident truth way- a “good man” doesn’t have to be good- a “good man” is simply a man who exemplifies the zeitgeist and culture of a place and time as far as society is concerned. This is why who was good in history becomes bad in the future as values change and such. In the sense of moral objective good- I said we won’t touch that minefield and we won’t.
If such a thing exists as moral good and it is the sort of traditional, selfless morality- that’s as easy as ever. Which is to say it isn’t.
We tend to conflate things. Great men, men in history books and such, are seldom truly “good” in some pure sense. What society rewards as good and what is morally good don’t always match.
Most Christian women wouldn’t marry a man that lived like Jesus. Homeless, wandering around doing good deeds and not owning shit? Taking every problem on themselves and living to help everyone they see or can reach? Yeah. Unless you’re rich enough that you can have and do whatever you want despite your spouse, or you are also a hard core hippie type… most people ain’t lining up to “live a perfect life of hood for others benefit at their own expense” and society doesn’t reward that. We can blame capitalism but it isn’t that. That’s most of history. People like to eat and like when they have to worry less about being able to eat or having palatable meals. Pragmatism. The place philosophy often collides with reality.
So for sure, between technology and social expectations and economics and physical realities of a world with 7 billion and counting and the disconnect between the concept of the “good man” and the man who is treated as though he is “good,” the modern age makes it difficult to be seen as good in many ways, but I mean… really when most people say it’s hard to be a good man what they are saying is that they don’t feel like being the type of man they want to be pays well by the hour; or that society doesn’t value what they bring to the table.
@earnster- thank you. Sorry to keep going. I don’t usually see the reply until the chain is done. I don’t always agree with me either. Usually when something is my opinion I’ll preface it by stating it is how I feel or think. The rest of the time I am often merely presenting a possible thought or line of thought on a subject, it may not be what I think, but it wouldn’t do to simply consider a singular or obvious angle of anything and decide that after one look from one direction one has enough to form an opinion. I think that the thinking on and examining is often more important than the issue- particularly with many of these modern things that come and go and are often so frivolous. With some of these things it’s like asking someone’s opinion about the rain- what they think of it doesn’t really make much difference to the reality I suppose- but understanding the way they think or you think is perhaps of broader value.
“Men are important and strong” is a sentence that if anyone in my life spoke to me, other than a child, I would either assume they had a stroke and the doctors didn’t get there in time to prevent damage, or thy they were pandering or mocking me.
It jumps off the page in a special way that makes me seriously question if this was written by a woman at all, or made by “mommy’s special boy” in a basement somewhere while nursing hurt feelings that despite her assurances of his worth, mommy seems to be just about the only woman who feels this boy is special. But let us dive in.
Men ARE important. We still lack the technology to reliably and effectively reproduce without men. Of course we need women for this too- and their part in things is a touch more complex to engineer a substitute for, though men can provide back yo back reproductive events- so if there was 1 man and 100 women on earth we could have up yo or exceeding 100 babies in 9 months to repopulate, but 1 woman and 100 men would provide an average of 1 but up to maybe 8 or so babies in 9 months. So let’s call it a wash and agree that men and women on the whole share a roughly equal importance in reproduction in the sense we do need at least one of each to continue our species. Beyond that…. “Men” on the whole have no particular importance beyond whatever importance we give any other human being.
Not really anything there is exclusive to men or requires gender. Men are not by default or even by average the “bread winner” in modern times, beyond “inherent human value,” an individuals behavior and results dictate “importance,” and that is true of men or women. Ironically, this meme mentions Ken having feelings they are taught not to share, while also espousing a perspective that is strongly based in traditional ideas of gender roles. Those same traditional gender roles are what stifles the expression of feelings by men, and I assure you that a woman with truly “traditional” gender ideas does not want you to express your feelings openly and freely unless your feelings and your expression of them happen to conform to traditional gender roles.
You can argue that is a generalization but it is not. Plainly and factually by default. That is the entire nature of “culture wars” and such of the modern day- if you do not believe it, men in relationships with women who value “traditional gender roles,” try acting extremely sensitive, differential, indecisive or unsure, try saying that you feel pretty and then tell them you want to explore your feminine side and wear some heels because you feel like it. Start making sexual comments about attraction to other men or eroticizing men. Yeah. If she goes for it- she’s not a woman who holds “traditional gender values” my dude. Those are progressive gender values.
Which is my whole point, if you are honestly expressing your identity you don’t have any “pent up feelings” because you are being your authentic self. If your authentic self conforms to traditional male gender type in non toxic ways, great. Do you, and this meme and none of this reply apply to you. If you have pent up feelings, you aren’t expressing who you are. You either don’t feel comfortable doing it, or you know that certain people won’t accept you or view you as you want to be seen. When society told women they couldn’t wear pants or vote, they wore pants and picketed and tried to pool anyway. So if you’re upset that you can’t cry when you're sad- do it. Be the change you want to see.
What is extremely hilarious to me is the number of men who subscribe to these sorts of arguments and the overlap with the number of men who would say “all lives matter” or “blue lives matter…” despite the ideological contradiction. You see, none of those points are gendered issues. They can apply to men or women. There is no reason to speak those points specifically in relation to any gender, a call for acceptance of people and appreciation is all that is required, it is interesting to say the least.
I suppose that it may be harder than it ever has to appear to be a good man.
Technology has taken away quite a bit of the privacy and blind spots we had to hide our failings and faults- though to some degree where and when there were few people, finding places to hide things could be tough- but with life even in one’s home and perhaps head more open due to technology, and the myriad of temptations and opportunities to show imperfection of character, I’d say that on the whole the modern day does make it harder to hold the perception of a good man.
So the modern age can make it very difficult for someone to adhere to some traditional ideas of “goodness” while balancing out their personal desires.
Essentially, most of the time this is resolved in that most societies require a “good man” to exist in a place where they are not perceived as a burden (politicians and holy persons etc. often rely on others to survive but when and where they are seen as providing a value greater than they take they are considered good, and where people feel that politicians or holy persons etc. take more than they give- bad.)
So in most societies if you are the “ultimate good man” who is above conflict and pettiness, who takes the burdens of others as your own, who always does what is right no matter the personal cost, who would and does literally give the short off his back… you probably will not do well in social standard or mating. A mate generally wants a man that prioritizes his “people,” and society wants that too.
A community will generally view a man as a good man who uses their abilities to serve the community. A nation generally expects a good man to support the nation. There aren’t a lot of nations in history or the modern age that would say: “nah. You’re right. Our government lied and we were wrong here. You are a good man for exposing our dirty secrets and helping the enemy to stop our plans. We almost did something there that would have been bad. Thanks.”
So in the most self evident truth way- a “good man” doesn’t have to be good- a “good man” is simply a man who exemplifies the zeitgeist and culture of a place and time as far as society is concerned. This is why who was good in history becomes bad in the future as values change and such. In the sense of moral objective good- I said we won’t touch that minefield and we won’t.
If such a thing exists as moral good and it is the sort of traditional, selfless morality- that’s as easy as ever. Which is to say it isn’t.
Most Christian women wouldn’t marry a man that lived like Jesus. Homeless, wandering around doing good deeds and not owning shit? Taking every problem on themselves and living to help everyone they see or can reach? Yeah. Unless you’re rich enough that you can have and do whatever you want despite your spouse, or you are also a hard core hippie type… most people ain’t lining up to “live a perfect life of hood for others benefit at their own expense” and society doesn’t reward that. We can blame capitalism but it isn’t that. That’s most of history. People like to eat and like when they have to worry less about being able to eat or having palatable meals. Pragmatism. The place philosophy often collides with reality.
It jumps off the page in a special way that makes me seriously question if this was written by a woman at all, or made by “mommy’s special boy” in a basement somewhere while nursing hurt feelings that despite her assurances of his worth, mommy seems to be just about the only woman who feels this boy is special. But let us dive in.