Wow. That’s really awful.

The question of who gets more value is not black and white. At first glance it is easy. Intern needs internship, employer provides internship. But if the internship is unpaid, and the employer is not ensuring that the internship is providing the experience needed to get a paying job but is requiring a lot fetching—that’s not fulfilling the intent of the program. But is it because the employer isn’t providing the opportunity or because the intern isn’t taking them? And if the employer says they are providing and the intern is sure they aren’t who is correct? The party with the better lawyers.
Some careers that require internships go on to make big money, but not all of them. Sometimes these interns are just trying to get a job that pays them $10-12 an hour.

Yeah, I guess if you work in an industry where internships are required you can just get a different career. But that’s not really a solution. That’s someone saying I don’t think you need it so it isn’t important. No, it’s not life threatening in the way experiencing homelessness can be.
For sure, we are operating in the self actualization point of the pyramid, but to suggest that someone should work in a field they don’t like or aren’t suited for because they don’t want to be exploited is sort of cruel.

Nah. We take our own stitches out in my house too. :)
Two exceptions: my spouse had spine surgery and we had the doc take those stitches out, mostly to check the healing. And when my kid had to get staples. Staples require a machine to remove. That had to be done in the office.
All the others, we do at home. (As long as the healing going good). Pets too.

@guest_ I’m not arguing in favor of stealing from an employer, no matter if what they are doing is right or wrong. I started off with that. Let me say it again. Stealing is wrong. Stealing from someone who you feel has wronged you is still wrong.
Yes, young people do have a lot more power than they realize. But that doesn’t change the exploitation that happens very regularly. And the company that is running the internship probably has better lawyers than the intern does. And every now and then you see it pop up where a group of interns go together to try to fight for their rights. But it’s really hard to prove who got more benefit from an internship.
I wasn’t trying to suggest that stealing is okay. I was suggesting that we don’t have to change the laws to protect interns. We just have to follow them. The laws exist and are very specific. Having hired interns, I’ve spent some time with the labor laws in that regard.

And we do have very specific laws regarding internships. It doesn’t require a change at all. In fact, legally, most “internships” must be paid to be compliant with the law.
The problem is, interns are usually young people who are excited and desperate to break into the field. They don’t know any better and they don’t have the power or leverage to make a change.

the law dictates that the organization cannot gain more benefit that the unpaid intern. So, if you have someone making copies and and taking coffee/sandwich orders and you aren’t paying them— you’re breaking the law.
The reason it is okay to hire an intern and not pay them is that you are utilizing skilled labor to train unskilled persons. Fetching coffee is not a specialized skill that a skilled laborer within your organization is taking time out of their daily responsibilities to train the intern in the nuanced practice of.
Using skilled labor to show an intern how to apply the UP&LA to materials for retail in the US is supported in the law. The skilled laborer must spend time tutoring the intern, and the intern learns an important skill.
The bottom line, under the law, is that the organization is not getting this labor for free. They are trading equally valuable labor.

While I agree regarding the virtue of stealing. It’s really not so simple as to not participate.
In some industries that is the only way to get a job. And some degree programs you have to do an internship to graduate. Maybe some virtuoso could escape the prescribed course but for a lot of young people, there’s no choice but to submit to the abuse or change career path.

1-2% of people will get a low grade fever from the flu vaccine.
That’s not the same as getting sick with the full force of the influenza virus and it is not what the argument is trying to suggest. They are acting like a recipient of the vaccine is likely to get the flu from the vaccine. That’s misleading and it deters people from getting a vaccine that could help a lot of people.

I hope that I can be so brave when faced with such a situation.

My parents started talking to me about the nature of relationships and sexuality when I was very young. I have had one sexual partner and we have been together nearing 30 years.
We talked very candidly to our child about the nature of relationships and sexuality. As soon as he was old enough to start asking questions, I bought him some books about it sex/sexuality. My kid is 15, I don’t know for sure, but I think my kid is not sexually active. And, If my kid is, the kid has access to birth control and understands how and why to use it.
Generally, kids are going to do what they do. The best a parent can do is prepare them to make the best decision. That means providing accurate information.

There’s actually some study to suggest that people who use curse words, I fact,have a more diverse vocabulary.

People are funny that way. I guess a lot folks just can’t fathom it. I guess a lot of people are so specific in their attraction that they can imagine being not so specific.