I'm pretty sure the Catholic church is against executions. Correct me if I'm wrong or if other christians believe in executions, but otherwise I would recommend people stop stereotyping each other.
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· 10 years ago
i don;t really believe in executions or war, for that matter. so ya. Let's just all stop stereotyping, and that goes for everyone.
I just want to point out that all the witch trials, and all the heretics killed is pretty strong evidence that churches have no problem with executions, as long as they kill people that don't support their church.
that's what happens when a few bad apples invade a religion, but I would argue that it wasn't the religion itself but the people who were responsible for the things you brought up. Just like osama bin laden, or the early jews who thought circumcision was a good idea.
Well, deadbird, you're also pointing out things hundreds of years old. In modernity, a church (mainstream or otherwise), executing people will meet the swift justice of government. Heck, look at David Koresh of the FLDS in Arizona and Utah.
I don't know if I've been misinformed on this, but I thought there was still a death penalty in many American states, one that was still defended by mostly fundamentalist evangelical Christian conservatives. The same people who defend the death penalty also oppose abortion, and support some kind of army. An army always means killing people. There is nothing an army does that doesn't in some way involve killing other people. The army is one of the only things in the entire history of the world that is made with nothing but killing other people in mind. And yet the same people who support the army oppose abortion, claiming that it's because abortion is the same as killing babies.
In other words, they oppose the removal of one so far unborn embryo, no matter the circumstances, while the army, the guns, and the death penalty they support kill thousands of people every day.
Two things wrong about this.
1) He describes fully developed human beings as "Embryos"
From Bing:
Embryo: human offspring in initial developmental stage: a human offspring in the early stages following conception up to the end of the eighth week, after which it is classified as a fetus.
An embryo cannot kill. It cannot execute another human being.
2) Christians do not believe in murdering human beings. That does not mean that they would not kill someone who is intent in harming them (self defense) or using execution as a form of punishment for those who deserve it (Murderers).
It is never right to kill another human being for the sake of killing, but it is always right for a human being to protect themselves from others who wish to do them harm.
Close, but not quite.
The Islamist did have a jihad going in the middle east, but the church only went there to protect the lives of fellow Catholic/Christian pilgrims.
When towns or cities were raided and sacked it was under the commands of the kings who brought their armies in support to the crusade, and not the commands of the church (exception being Jerusalem, but that was a sacred city that had been captured by the Islamist).
The kings who supplied the armies (the church had none of their own) did it for political gain.
The church did have a vested interest in keeping their followers safe, but the kings were in it for the gold and riches.
The crusades were almost purely religious. That's why they're called crusades. Just in case some of you don't know what the word means, in Norwegian they're called Korstog, which literally translates to Cross (as in the Holy Cross) Train, or a Train of Crosses. The crusaders fought under a red cross on a white field, the same symbol that is now the flag of England (England was at the time represented by three golden lions on a red field).
Sure the kings were partly in it for the money, but with so much money involved who wouldn't? There were only Catholic Christian countries involved, and the crusades were called upon by the Pope, for one reason: To take (not retake) the Holy City from the infidel Muslims. Millions of completely innocent people were killed by the crusaders just because they were Muslims.
carlosdanger | They're called Muslims, not Islamist, and they hadn't captured Jerusalem from the Christians. Firstly, the Muslims weren't one nation, and calling them that is like saying that the Christians were one nation. Egypt held Jerusalem at the time, but the crusaders also had to make their way through the Muslim Turkey. Secondly, Jerusalem had always been a Muslim city in the part of the world where Islam was "founded". Christianity only sprouted from somewhere around Jerusalem as nothing more than a cult.
The church did have protection of pilgrims in mind, but equally as important was the eradication of the Muslims in the area, and the annexation of the Holy City into the Catholic church.
Jerusalem is smack centre in the cradle of Islam, and was a Muslim city up until the crusades around 1100. Comparing any group of people with their medieval counterparts is wrong, no matter how you look at it. Even if it's positive for that particular group (Take us Norwegians, for instance. Everywhere I go we're compared to our Viking ancestors, when clearly we aren't anywhere near as awesome (sorry, fellow Norwegians, but we aren't)). Yes, Muslims were bad around the time of the crusades, but so were Christians, Jews, Hinduists, Buddhists, Pagans. Literally every single group was bad by modern standards around the time of the crusades. Some Muslims shoot Christians and say it's because they're Christians, and you judge Islam and Muslims in general, but if some Christians shoot Muslims saying it's because they're Muslims and you'll most likely say that "a few bad apples spoil the bunch".
Is every Christian you know, including yourself, evangelical fundamentalists who refuse to accept the evolution of species? Because although that doesn't directly have anything to do with this particular case, most evangelical fundamentalists who oppose the evolution of species are also anti-abortion but pro-army (and thus pro-war) and pro-execution.
This is a flawed way of looking at the subject. A prisoner has done something wrong and is being executed for a reason. In a war, at least in America, most of the soldiers are volunteers, and even if not, it's for the greater good of the country (not to say I believe all wars needed to be fought). But then you have an "embryo", a child who has done nothing, is innocent, and cannot consent to its death. Just wanted to point that out.
Every single human being has the right to live, and there is no evidence that execution prevents crime. Rather on the contrary, it makes crimes that lead to execution anyway escalate to a point where someone who murdered one man could easily murder ten more, because no matter what he does he's going to be executed.
About war, I'm against any form of attack, and think that the attacker should always be the "enemy" of the world, no matter who they are or what purpose they have, while rebellions whould be treated the exact opposite way (the rebels should be helped, even though they're the attackers).
Whatever you say, embryos are not human beings. Fetuses are, but abortion is only the removal of embryos, not fetuses. Embryos are just the fusion of egg and sperm, and the embryos of different species are only slightly different.
To answer his question, you are never at an age where it is appropiate to kill a fellow human being. If I recall correctly, murder is one of the most serious sins out there.
*yawn* Yet another frustrated atheist with a beef against something he doesn't believe in. Why don't you people do something interesting? Like, maybe complain that Batman does more harm for Gotham than he does good?
To take the angle of the last sentence there: Conservatives are pro-army (and thus pro-war) and pro-execution, but against abortion. This joke targets conservative Christians. With that in mind, I have another, similar joke: If the child whose life you (not you, guest, but the target of this joke) fought for is gay, will you still fight for its rights?
(Conservative Christian speaking here) I would. I personally do not hate gays, and am good friends with a lot of them, although I don't exactly agree with their choices. Also, last time I checked, gays are humans...
After looking through the comments im glad that everyone is correcting this judgemental asshole. Just to add to that point, the Ten Commandments, the MOST BASIC rules of Christianity, states "thou shalt not murder". Both execution and abortion fall under this category in my opinion
In other words, they oppose the removal of one so far unborn embryo, no matter the circumstances, while the army, the guns, and the death penalty they support kill thousands of people every day.
1) He describes fully developed human beings as "Embryos"
From Bing:
Embryo: human offspring in initial developmental stage: a human offspring in the early stages following conception up to the end of the eighth week, after which it is classified as a fetus.
An embryo cannot kill. It cannot execute another human being.
2) Christians do not believe in murdering human beings. That does not mean that they would not kill someone who is intent in harming them (self defense) or using execution as a form of punishment for those who deserve it (Murderers).
It is never right to kill another human being for the sake of killing, but it is always right for a human being to protect themselves from others who wish to do them harm.
The Islamist did have a jihad going in the middle east, but the church only went there to protect the lives of fellow Catholic/Christian pilgrims.
When towns or cities were raided and sacked it was under the commands of the kings who brought their armies in support to the crusade, and not the commands of the church (exception being Jerusalem, but that was a sacred city that had been captured by the Islamist).
The church did have a vested interest in keeping their followers safe, but the kings were in it for the gold and riches.
Sure the kings were partly in it for the money, but with so much money involved who wouldn't? There were only Catholic Christian countries involved, and the crusades were called upon by the Pope, for one reason: To take (not retake) the Holy City from the infidel Muslims. Millions of completely innocent people were killed by the crusaders just because they were Muslims.
The church did have protection of pilgrims in mind, but equally as important was the eradication of the Muslims in the area, and the annexation of the Holy City into the Catholic church.
About war, I'm against any form of attack, and think that the attacker should always be the "enemy" of the world, no matter who they are or what purpose they have, while rebellions whould be treated the exact opposite way (the rebels should be helped, even though they're the attackers).
Whatever you say, embryos are not human beings. Fetuses are, but abortion is only the removal of embryos, not fetuses. Embryos are just the fusion of egg and sperm, and the embryos of different species are only slightly different.