Why fight about it? I think it's stupid not to get vaccinated, but if you don't want it just don't get the vaccine. The only reason I can see is when people refuse to get their children vaccinated..
That's not because of the vaccine. In a vaccine the body is exposed to dead or extremely weakened virus, triggering an immune response, telling the body exactly how to handle the virus in question in the future. No one has ever died from being unable to "handle" a vaccination.
Not true actually. All medical treatments pose some sort of risk. .001% of those vaccinated will have a reaction their body can't handle. And sometimes that leads to death. One of my best friend has a 16 year old daughter with severe cerebral palsy caused by a brain bleed after a vaccination. It can happen. But, she still chose to vaccinate her other children because, as a nurse, she knows that it's an extremely rare and freak accident type of reaction. The chances of a life threatening/life altering reaction are so small and rare, that using it as an excuse not to vaccinate, is doesn't make sense.
and sadly, i hate to be this frank, read me a lullaby, but if that baby's immune system couldn't handle a vaccine, their immune system would have been highly unlikely to have been able to support them, at best, 10 years.
Yeah, not true either. It has nothing to do with the baby's body not being able to handle the dead virus, it has to do with a systemic reaction that is caused when the immune system responds normally to the vaccine. Which is why it's a freak random occurrence, and vaccines aren't given to children with extremely poor immune systems. So no, you can not say that if they didn't have it they would have died in 10 years from a crap immune system. It doesn't work that way. Medicine is not a+b=c. It's closer to differential calculus or astrophysics.
Polio, pertussis, mumps, and a whole host of other diseases were almost eradicated in the US. Until people decided to use the logic that since everyone else is vaccinated, they didn't need to be. Also, because a man publish a paper containing fake trial evidence, fake research, and tons if lies saying vaccines caused autism. He's in jail now for this. The number of deaths for many preventable diseases is on the rise. And many schools have even had to shut down because of outbreaks.
It's great that you have such a good immune system. But you can still be a carrier and spread viruses to others. Which is how in a developed country, these diseases still exist. NOT because of open borders.
And FYI, there is NO vaccine for HIV/AIDS.
I've worked in healthcare/hospitals for 12 years. I know what I'm talking about.
Oops, wasn't logged in.
Vaccines exist to combat viruses, because viruses don't respond to antibiotics, only bacterium do. In developed countries, during WW1, more people died of the flu then died in the war.
We're not talking about bubonic plague, or cholera, or even hepatitis. Spend anytime in a children's hospital, and you will see why vaccines are so needed in the developed world. Vaccines are important to protect children, the elderly and the immune compromised (auto immune diseases, those on cancer treatments, and a whole host of genetic conditions that hurt the immune system). Vaccines are not just to protect you. They protect others from you.
I think this should have been posted in the "talk"substance. the developers made it for opinions and such...this is the "fun"substance, id like to keep them separated....
The danger in not getting vaccinated isn't that you or your kids get sick but that you can carry the virus and get others sick. And things like the measles can be deadly to small children or the elderly. Even to some adults with a weaker immune system.
I'm all for supporting people's beliefs, and if you believe vaccines are bad, then that's fine. It's incorrect, but it's fine.
EXCEPT when your decision to not get vaccinated based on your false belief affects other people. If you don't get vaccinated and you get exposed to a virus, you have a chance of not getting sick or fighting it off because you're healthy and your immune system works. But if you come into contact with someone who has a weak immune system and is too sick to get vaccines even if they wanted them (young child, elderly adult, cancer patient, someone with an autoimmune disease, etc), and that person gets sick because of the virus YOU carried to them, and dies because their system is too weak to fight it off, then it's your fault.
I think it varies from vaccine to vaccine. Now most of the people "refusing" vaccines, actually have and are still "on" vaccines. You need certain vaccines for school and work, the major one that people refuse is the flu. Simply because for most people it isn't that big of a deal and they'd rather take the chance of getting sick (because death of flu is uncommon/rare in developed countries).
Let me tell you a small story. (This is in no way a reason to not get vaccinated, just maybe a small counter arguement.) My sister is very sensitive to heavy metals, and has trouble getting them out of her body. Due to this, when she was vaccinated, it delayed her progress with her balance and speech skills. After many years of therapy, she speaks clearly for the most part and has no problem with balance, but mind you this was after lots of money was spent to correct this with certain therapies. So quite honestly, I DO think it is a smart choice to get you and your kid vaccinated against certain illnesses, but there is more of risk involved than realized.
I haven't read everything there is on the subject, but I seem to have heard somewhere that we're exposed to higher amounts of all the stuff that most vaccines contain (mercury, for instance) by just walking down the street. There is no way we can know for absolutely sure whether your sister's delayed development was caused by the vaccine or something else.
Well when was the last time you saw a highly transmittable, lethal disease in a 'developed' country? ( I assume the guest lives in a 'developed' country where disease like malaria are very rare.)
Most of the diseases that we have vaccines for are either incurable diseases (AIDS, HIV) or for diseases that could cause someone harm (a severe Flu can harm infants and elderly). Because we live in developed countries we have a clean environment. We have methods of sanitation to keep ourselves and our living spaces clean, we have access to remedies that are affective against a vast number of diseases, we have access to medical professionals that can diagnose and treat diseases with products that are not vaccines, and who cares if someone gets sick because they did not get a vaccine. If someone chose not to get a vaccine then they knew that they where at risk of contracting a disease, it was there choice, not yours, and if they drop dead from it does it really bother you? It was their decisions that lead then to that end.
I was researching this topic a while ago and found this: http://www.relfe.com/2013-2020/why_how_homeschool_what_is_home_schooling.html Number 43 he talks bout vaccines and the damage they do. He even links resources and articles to support his arguments.
I also see that a lot of people will take their view of their world and attribute its' state to anything that seems reasonable, 'There are no major diseases here. It must be because of vaccines', but they leave out everything else that can stop diseases. We wash our hands regularly, to keep germs off them, we wash ourselves and our clothes, to keep clean, we have various cleaning products designed to kill germs, and we have access to a lot of good food so our bodies can stay healthy enough to fight off diseases. We use said methods to keep our homes, workspaces, and ourselves clean and healthy to stop the spread of diseases.
Vaccines are only a very small part of a large plethora of things we use and do keep ourselves healthy.
One problem with that argument: The WHO works in 'Undeveloped' countries.
Those countries have issues getting clean water, good food, a clean environment to live in, products and traditional medicine designed to combat diseases, and so it is not a fair comparison.
I will admit that in undeveloped counties is where vaccines do there best work, because they do help to significantly reduce the spread and affects of diseases.
But the post is referring to developed countries, where the risk of a disease like malaria or other highly transmittable and lethal diseases is already very low, and as I have already stated, there are many more factors that lead to the elimination of diseases, and the environment a disease lives in, then a vaccine alone.
I have finished my argument, I see that if I go any further it will turn into opinion-vs-opinion rather than factual statements.
Take pertussis (whopping cough) for example. In 1974, Japan introduced a vaccine and over 80% of their infants were vaccinated. there were only about 380 cases of pertussis reported that year, but then this rumor began to spread that the vaccine was no longer necessary, then in 1979, there were only 10% of infants getting vaccinated, and it resulted in a major epidemic. There were somewhere around 13,000 cases reported and 41 deaths. Vaccines are entirely important to public health and are worth the trouble of 20 seconds of pain for a possible lifetime saved.
Because he has a belief that vaccinations aren't that great (whether they are or not is debatable) and he's unashamed and unafraid to voice his belief in it even though it's unpopular.
I've proudly never had a vaccine, my belief is that they are extremely harmful, I'm the healthiest person I know by far. I probably just have a good immune system, and I live an extremely active lifestyle, but I've never had a vaccine and never will take preventative vaccines.
No, Because I'm not arguing that vaccines don't protect you from whatever theyre for. I'm saying they're bad for you and contain mercury which doesn't matter the portion goes straight up to your brain. But to each they're own.
jjohnson21 and noiseexplosion. good for you that you two are so healthy! however, not everyone can have entirely efficent immune systems such as you two. Even as someone who has a strong enough immune system (i'm not so convinced but i'll take your word for it) and a lot of luck, You can still harbor bacterium and virus that make other people sick. by not taking vaccines, you tend to make yourself more of a danger to people who can't be as lucky as you are, as you can still spread a virus, but not exactly become sick from it.
Wait, so if I vaccinated its so I don't sick, now if someone that isn't vaccinated and has an efficient inmune system comes near me. I get sick... Hmm vaccines do work I guess. This is like arguing about fast food and how bad it is for you. No matter what the facts are... The government says they're following the rule, so we are good.
▼
deleted
· 10 years ago
I don't fully understand your last comment. What has "The government" got to do with anything here?
It's great that you have such a good immune system. But you can still be a carrier and spread viruses to others. Which is how in a developed country, these diseases still exist. NOT because of open borders.
And FYI, there is NO vaccine for HIV/AIDS.
I've worked in healthcare/hospitals for 12 years. I know what I'm talking about.
Vaccines exist to combat viruses, because viruses don't respond to antibiotics, only bacterium do. In developed countries, during WW1, more people died of the flu then died in the war.
We're not talking about bubonic plague, or cholera, or even hepatitis. Spend anytime in a children's hospital, and you will see why vaccines are so needed in the developed world. Vaccines are important to protect children, the elderly and the immune compromised (auto immune diseases, those on cancer treatments, and a whole host of genetic conditions that hurt the immune system). Vaccines are not just to protect you. They protect others from you.
EXCEPT when your decision to not get vaccinated based on your false belief affects other people. If you don't get vaccinated and you get exposed to a virus, you have a chance of not getting sick or fighting it off because you're healthy and your immune system works. But if you come into contact with someone who has a weak immune system and is too sick to get vaccines even if they wanted them (young child, elderly adult, cancer patient, someone with an autoimmune disease, etc), and that person gets sick because of the virus YOU carried to them, and dies because their system is too weak to fight it off, then it's your fault.
I also see that a lot of people will take their view of their world and attribute its' state to anything that seems reasonable, 'There are no major diseases here. It must be because of vaccines', but they leave out everything else that can stop diseases. We wash our hands regularly, to keep germs off them, we wash ourselves and our clothes, to keep clean, we have various cleaning products designed to kill germs, and we have access to a lot of good food so our bodies can stay healthy enough to fight off diseases. We use said methods to keep our homes, workspaces, and ourselves clean and healthy to stop the spread of diseases.
Vaccines are only a very small part of a large plethora of things we use and do keep ourselves healthy.
You need to educate yourself with credible information, don't fill your head with utter bullshit.
Those countries have issues getting clean water, good food, a clean environment to live in, products and traditional medicine designed to combat diseases, and so it is not a fair comparison.
I will admit that in undeveloped counties is where vaccines do there best work, because they do help to significantly reduce the spread and affects of diseases.
But the post is referring to developed countries, where the risk of a disease like malaria or other highly transmittable and lethal diseases is already very low, and as I have already stated, there are many more factors that lead to the elimination of diseases, and the environment a disease lives in, then a vaccine alone.
I have finished my argument, I see that if I go any further it will turn into opinion-vs-opinion rather than factual statements.