Seriously though guys, I respect that you don't want to see it but truly effects us all. Net neutrality, NSA Internet spying, government and corporate data mining, NSA phone spying are all some examples of things that effect each and every one of us. You cannot just sit there blissfully unaware what is being done to us and then sit up in ten years and say "what happened?" Not trying to argue , just pointing it out.
well Benjamin franklin does not live in the 21st century and hasn't seen all the breeches of security and all the bombings so using his statement is kind of invalid because times have changed a lot since his day
12
deleted
· 10 years ago
It's funny how many people will make a statement like that about something that was said a few hundred years ago, but won't think the same thing about religious laws written a two thousand years ago.
Good old Benjamin.
The United States was founded for liberty, any measure to ensure safety is temporary, and while some are needed, interfering with the bill of rights only turns us into those we have fought over the nations lifetime.
Privacy, as Obama would define it, and Liberty, as Franklin would define it, are two very different things. Franklin did not fear a suitcase bomb, or a terrorist flying an airplane into a building.
Oh please, I'm not saying we should live in a panopticon of surveillance. I'm saying that the realities that Franklin faced are vastly different than the realities that Obama faces. A 18th century man's definition of liberty would probably be the ability to own land and elect people to represent him in the government. Privacy, as we know it, is practically non-existent. Everything you do is tracked and recorded. I'm not saying this a good thing, but the reality of the world we live in.
Funny you say it like that...
The oath of (re) enlistment for US troops contains the line "I will defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic...
.
Coupled with the Second Ammendment, our forefathers wrote into law the very means to be able to overthrow the government they were building. They saw what happened under the yoke of Brittish rule under King George... they wanted to be sure that it never happened again.
4
deleted
· 10 years ago
You act as if I just slapped the constitution in the face. If you know who Locke, Montesque, or Roussea is then you'd know they were the philosophers to come up with the ideas of the American government today. I was referring to laws as the sacrificed freedoms. With the freedom of America comes laws to protect the people pf the nation. If laws weren't in place this would be a deadly place to live in. The biggest freedom removed is the freedom of murder. If it wasn't for laws and punishment this would be a different country.
People always jump to murder and stop signs to combat arguments for less government. There is a need for those laws, however unfettered spying is just the exact thing the fourth amendment is meant to control. NYC has a stop and frisk policy. Police can stop you and frisk you and make you turn out your pockets, empty briefcases and backpacks simply for walking down the street. This is EXACTLY what Benjamin Franklin and POTUS are disagreeing about in this post.
I don't see Obama doing anything to fix the problem.
Can't blame Bush for everything. If Obama disagreed with it, he'd make moves to end it. Not defend it.
Mnnn. Nope.
The NSA predates Bush II.
It was founded on November 4th, 1952 under President Truman. It's historical legacy goes back even further to 1917.
I respect the wisdom of our founding fathers, don't get me wrong, but they had no idea what challenges modern society would face. You can't apply things said by guys who didn't know what a fucking germ was to all aspects of modern life.
Things haven't changed as much as you seem to think. War is still war, liberty is still liberty, oppression is is still oppression, and the Bill of Rights is still the Bill of Rights.
The people and the rules may have changed, but freedom is still worth any and all costs.
The United States was founded for liberty, any measure to ensure safety is temporary, and while some are needed, interfering with the bill of rights only turns us into those we have fought over the nations lifetime.
The oath of (re) enlistment for US troops contains the line "I will defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic...
.
Coupled with the Second Ammendment, our forefathers wrote into law the very means to be able to overthrow the government they were building. They saw what happened under the yoke of Brittish rule under King George... they wanted to be sure that it never happened again.
Can't blame Bush for everything. If Obama disagreed with it, he'd make moves to end it. Not defend it.
The NSA predates Bush II.
It was founded on November 4th, 1952 under President Truman. It's historical legacy goes back even further to 1917.
The people and the rules may have changed, but freedom is still worth any and all costs.
I'll be sure to remember it.