You're right, and that is a logical argument when people talk about breast; however, the problem is that we have sexualized them over the past 100 plus years. And although, there are movements like free the nipple who try to normalize breast and remove the sexual stigma, it's going to take time for change like that to happen. Change on that scale usually doesn't happen over night. I believe that a younger generation will need to grow up no longer seeing them as sexual, and the older generation that continues to do so will have to die out before we really see any change. And until then: YAY BOOBS
thats right!! thank you for addressing that! In fact on August 23rd in 1815 there was a law signed stating that if a female exposes a breast it was considered indecent exposure because men would all get boners, and that's a horrible way to live. So keep em covered ladies.
(I'm being sarcastic) I'm not sure the exact year the breast became considered a sexual symbol, that's why I said 100 plus and not 100 years exactly. Good job pointing that out; although I have no idea why you did.
There are plenty of statues of women covering their bare breasts with their hands, suggesting immodesty, and later accounts in the classical era certainly refer to painting of topless women to be immoral to some extent.
look, ankles and wrists used to have to be hidden because it was improper too. breasts are sexual because we sexualize them, over time they will be freed, and over time it will stop seeming improper. personally i think we need to stop confusing sexual with shameful as a society, sex organs are for sex but who cares. i use my mouth just as much in sex and no one wants that hidden. i wish we'd just stop being prudes about nudity in general, clothes should be worn for comfort and style as we please but nudity in places where nudity is harmless should be just a regular acceptable thing.
"look, ankles and wrists used to have to be hidden because it was improper too."
They still are, depending on where you go.
"over time they will be freed, and over time it will stop seeming improper."
That's... optimistic, I guess. I don't see any reason why that would happen.
"personally i think ~ a regular acceptable thing."
It's unsanitary for one thing. How far do you want to go anyway? Should public sex be socially acceptable?
Unsanitary? There is more harmful bacteria on your hands than any other part of your body....including your anus. So unless you dipping your tits in the sewer then doing surgery with them I fail to see how having breasts out in public is unsanitary. The fact is dudes can be topless but women can't, men can show nips, women can't. It's bullshit censorship. Fuck " there sexual" I use my mouth far more sexually than my tits but you don't see face book taking smiles down.
how does being naked = having sex? i just think making garments that arent really hiding anything obligatory to wear is stupid. like, i don't think people need to go into the airport naked, but i think anyplace where a bathing suit is acceptable nude is fine too. certainly, you shouldn't sit on something indoor and public nude, although from the marks i've seen the barriers already in place arent really keeping it clean. i think the whole world would healthier about bodies AND sex if we stopped treating sexual body parts and gross and needing to be hidden. i do think if you are in a place where it would be weird to be in a bathing suit, then thats a place where you need to wear clothing, and i imagine in a nude friendly society, carrying along bottoms for sitting in places would become customary, esp among females, just as while i tend to be nude in my own home, either i wear bottoms on the furniture, or i have a blanket especially intended for sitting on.
@bingbangwala
"Unsanitary? There is more harmful bacteria on your hands than any other part of your body....including your anus."
Which is why we wash our hands. Do you want to sit in seats that have been sat in by an untold amount of unknown bare asses?
"The fact is dudes can be topless but women can't"
Depends where you live.
@deviledapple
"how does being naked = having sex?"
No one said that.
"i think the whole world would healthier about bodies AND sex if we stopped treating sexual body parts and gross and needing to be hidden."
That's overly optimistic and idealistic.
"i do think if you are in a place where it would be weird to be in a bathing suit, then thats a place where you need to wear clothing"
So you think it's stupid that we need to wear clothing, but think that most of the time we should wear clothing?
"i imagine in a nude friendly society, carrying along bottoms for sitting in places would become customary"
That sounds ridiculous.
"esp among females"
Why?
sigh. it was implied in "whats next having sex in public" which is silly. i disagree that its over optimistic obviously. i think its stupid to always wear clothing, but i think societal rules call for types of garb in types of situations. like i do not go to mall in bikini bottoms, i wear more conservative clothing in gov't buildings etc. as for sitting, i am less concerned about anus because the buttcheek fat protects that, nothing really comes out of balls or dick unless its excited, but women can excrete at any time. in general since thats sort of a sweaty smelly area if either gender sits on a public sitting spot not exposed to elements, i think a barrier is appropriate, but if a non sweaty man and a non sweaty female sit down, one is more likely than the other to leave fluids behind, so in this situation, a bottom is advisable.
"it was implied in "whats next having sex in public"
Who said that?
"as for sitting, i am ~ bottom is advisable. "
It seems like it would be a lot easier to just make people wear bottoms in public, which is basically what we do now.
i paraphrased "It's unsanitary for one thing. How far do you want to go anyway? Should public sex be socially acceptable? " which was you. and a lot of things are easier but that doesn't mean that's how it should be. i am referring to the notion of perhaps on the day at the beach naked you stop at the DQ for a snack, this is a scenario where it is appropriate to put on bottoms even in a nude friendly place. otherwise, be naked be happy be free.
"i paraphrased "It's unsanitary for one thing. How far do you want to go anyway? Should public sex be socially acceptable? " which was you."
I see. Regardless, none of that is the same as "naked = having sex".
"that doesn't mean that's how it should be."
Why should it be they way you describe?
apparently there is a daily comment limit so i am done with this thread after this. it should be that way because this puritan concept of covering our shameful parts is wrong. bodies are just bodies and if we stopped making a big deal out them it would be harder to use them to hurt people. people would worry less about their own appearance, you could not traumatize someone by flashing them, children would not have to learn about their bodies by exploring each other behind closed doors and crossing creepy lines we don't want our kids crossing. there is no rational reason to shame and hide our genitals. it's prude and its ridiculous.
That's all very idealistic. I really don't think it would work as well as you think it would. People would still be judged by how they look, and sex would likely still be a taboo subject ether way.
Also "creepy lines". Like what? Sex?
Garlog, I don't think the idea of moving toward a society that embraces our natural bodies and nudity as idealistic. I do see your attitude as pessimistic. It seems that your internal world is very lonely and downtrodden. As an activist, I have seen more cultural shifts in society brought about by individuals than I can count. Humans are an interesting and dynamic bunch and if you look back on history, well we can really work to achieve anything. It was only within the last 90 years that women could vote, I'm very excited to see what the next 90 have to hold, and I'm also committed to being an active part of that positive change, what part are you playing to make a positive contribution to your life/community/world? I hope that this is just an outlet for frustrations you have and you truly aren't as sad as you seem on this sight.
"I do see your attitude as pessimistic. It seems that your internal world is very lonely and downtrodden."
"As an activist"
"we can really work to achieve anything."
These are definitely the words of an idealist.
"what part are you playing to make a positive contribution to your life/community/world?"
I'm more concerned with what we have not falling a part, before I care about improving things. I'm not a big fan of replacing what works with what "sounds good".
I'd like to interject myself here now.
The desire for the ability for people to be nude in public is an idealistic view. It's not a moral or social problem at all, unlike the civil rights and women's rights and children's rights and all these rights. It's not a right to be naked in public. There is no benefit at all besides gloating about how big your stuff is, and if that's the case you're probably not that impressive because most people are grow-ers, not show-ers. The concept of embracing the natural body has to stem from some sort of religious idea because in creation stories we have naked people, and that's how people supposedly originally came, and that's what we should go back to. No. We should not go back to that. Because it's uncomfortable. If you wanna be nude outside for the sake of tanning, go tan in your backyard. There is no other -good- reason I can think of to be "publicly" nude.
Cock: sexual.
Breasts: not sexual.
And who in the right mind walks around with half a dick showing? No one. Besides, you're not called a perf all the time. A quick glance is fine, just don't fucking stare for five minutes straight.
Besides, the word "Meninist" on that tweet already shows you that this is a big joke.
This is a really weak argument. If it compared the chests of men and women, or the sexual organs of men and women it would make sense but breasts are literally just meatier, milk giving versions of a dude's chest, hence they're overly sexualized. This logic makes -2 sense.
Oh this guy is super classy. He likes to troll sexual abuse survivors and degrade women, please keep posting him around, it shows what a Luddite you are.
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· 9 years ago
No. More like: "Woman comes in showing half her breasts, I look, I'm a pervert. I come in wearing no shirt, she looks, she's a pervert." That is the proper comparison just like "I come in with my dick hanging half out, she looks, I'm a pervert. She comes in with her vag showing, I look, she's a pervert." Intentional exposure of something culturally accepted as lewd=pervert. Actively checking out something that is allowed but about which the inappropriateness is argued=they are showing off, but look at your own peril (whether you be male OR female).
Some girls (especially ones with big breasts) can't really help when they're breasts are out, they can wear a pretty modest shirt and still be hanging out. How is that the same as having your dick hanging out?
(I'm being sarcastic) I'm not sure the exact year the breast became considered a sexual symbol, that's why I said 100 plus and not 100 years exactly. Good job pointing that out; although I have no idea why you did.
They still are, depending on where you go.
"over time they will be freed, and over time it will stop seeming improper."
That's... optimistic, I guess. I don't see any reason why that would happen.
"personally i think ~ a regular acceptable thing."
It's unsanitary for one thing. How far do you want to go anyway? Should public sex be socially acceptable?
"Unsanitary? There is more harmful bacteria on your hands than any other part of your body....including your anus."
Which is why we wash our hands. Do you want to sit in seats that have been sat in by an untold amount of unknown bare asses?
"The fact is dudes can be topless but women can't"
Depends where you live.
@deviledapple
"how does being naked = having sex?"
No one said that.
"i think the whole world would healthier about bodies AND sex if we stopped treating sexual body parts and gross and needing to be hidden."
That's overly optimistic and idealistic.
"i do think if you are in a place where it would be weird to be in a bathing suit, then thats a place where you need to wear clothing"
So you think it's stupid that we need to wear clothing, but think that most of the time we should wear clothing?
"i imagine in a nude friendly society, carrying along bottoms for sitting in places would become customary"
That sounds ridiculous.
"esp among females"
Why?
Who said that?
"as for sitting, i am ~ bottom is advisable. "
It seems like it would be a lot easier to just make people wear bottoms in public, which is basically what we do now.
I see. Regardless, none of that is the same as "naked = having sex".
"that doesn't mean that's how it should be."
Why should it be they way you describe?
Also "creepy lines". Like what? Sex?
"As an activist"
"we can really work to achieve anything."
These are definitely the words of an idealist.
"what part are you playing to make a positive contribution to your life/community/world?"
I'm more concerned with what we have not falling a part, before I care about improving things. I'm not a big fan of replacing what works with what "sounds good".
The desire for the ability for people to be nude in public is an idealistic view. It's not a moral or social problem at all, unlike the civil rights and women's rights and children's rights and all these rights. It's not a right to be naked in public. There is no benefit at all besides gloating about how big your stuff is, and if that's the case you're probably not that impressive because most people are grow-ers, not show-ers. The concept of embracing the natural body has to stem from some sort of religious idea because in creation stories we have naked people, and that's how people supposedly originally came, and that's what we should go back to. No. We should not go back to that. Because it's uncomfortable. If you wanna be nude outside for the sake of tanning, go tan in your backyard. There is no other -good- reason I can think of to be "publicly" nude.
Breasts: not sexual.
And who in the right mind walks around with half a dick showing? No one. Besides, you're not called a perf all the time. A quick glance is fine, just don't fucking stare for five minutes straight.
Besides, the word "Meninist" on that tweet already shows you that this is a big joke.
English is my third language and even I know this.
Girls get sent home because their collar bone was showing
._.
google has some good ideas I think