You just wait, only the beginning, this is what the left has been begging for in the US. Free speech will be s thing of the past because we haven’t taught these children how to deal with their emotions
Well, i don't know what this dude wrote, but let's not mix free speech and free insult. All acts and words have consequences IRL, so I think it should be the same on the Internet, IMO.
Fair enough, but stuff like this never turns out well. We've functioned perfectly fine without it, and the only reason one would want this is to silent all dissent and opposing thought. Censorship is rarely the best answer to any social problem, if I dare say, it often times makes it worse.
Oh I agree, censorship never is the solution. But let's imagine IRL you get caught tagging a gay night club with insults -> Police will visit you and you'll get a fine and stuff. It's not censorship and for me, it should be the same on the Internet (there are so many people who get bullied on the Internet, it must be an awful nightmare to live).
Of course, it should not be abusive, but IMO it is actually a good thing to remember people to think twice before getting mad on the Internet :)
Free insult iS free speech. Unless you are threatening the other group or person physically and are going to bring harm to them it is your right to speak your beliefs however offensive or controversial it is and this is how tyranny begins when people can't say what they want and the government can punish them for their words.
@meatball2012 : I disagree, IMO Insults are not free speech and it should never be considered that way (or remember that if you're free to insult, other have the right not to be). You can give your opinion (free speech) without being mean or insulting people.
@Pokethebear : Indeed, you're right. So let's use another example : If you stand at that same gay might club's entrance and yell homophobic stuff, people around will find you agressive and might call the police to make you stop.
There is a huge difference between "I want to express my opinion" and "I'm acting like an agressive moron", and justice is there to tell you the difference. Of course, what's complicated is the fact there is no absolute fair justice, for it always depends on subjective elements (people and society).
Stil, I'm really wondering what this dude posted first...
Sadly people do not understand. Free speech isn’t only protected if it is nice speech. The only free speech not protected in the US is “call to action”. The example you always see is, “You are not allowed to yell FIRE in a theatre”, this is inciting a crowd to act. If I stand outside a club with a giant sign and yell “fags suck dick” it is in poor taste, but not criminal (exceptions for trespassing, loitering, etc). If a bystander decides to “punch a Nazi” and retaliat (which is a thing now) they are the one that have committed a criminal act. A sign and a chant of “punch a fag” is a call to action promoting violence and is not protected, you can be charged. If somebody starts throwing punches you can be charged with inciting violence. Any attempts by a government agent to quell protected speech are themselves criminal acts. I did once see counter protesters “arrested” at a rally, but in the police just drove the guys around the block and released them so a mob wouldn’t assault them.
I did not say that free speech should protect only nice things. You can disagree people without violence. Whether it's good or bad, words can be as powerful as actions ("I love you" vs a kiss ? :) You can literally ruin someone without touching him/her physically). Yes, there are people who overreact and get offended for no reason (and they are annoying). But there are also too many people who tend to give their raw opinion, helped by the fact a screen won't show any sadness, pain or anger.
I suppose (maybe I'm wrong) you're from the US and I understand your vision of Freedom of Speech is different from mine (I'm French and most of the time we express our anger toward governement with strikes xD). There is no good or bad answer in the end. I still disagree with you, but it was interesting to see your point of view.
French eh, is it true that your tanks have one forward gear and four reverse gears? JK. However it has always puzzled me how a nation with 10-15% unemployment rate seemed to enjoy striking so much. Is there no private industry? Does everybody work for the government? I need details.
Man, you easily fall in booby traps xD (you could have ended the conversation nicely, but the temptation to mock my nationaly was too strong for someone like you).
Sadly, I can't answer you for the tanks : the only one I can tell about is used for my fish.
Indeed, unemployment rate is around 10%.
Regarding strikes, only a few people actually goes on strike quite often : railwaymen, teachers, people working for large companies that makes huge profits. Railwaymen go on strike because they had good perks on their job, but since the work has become easier since XIXth century, government tends to delete these advantages. I don't blame them, if I were them, I wouldn't like to lose my rights either. The fact is, since they're railwaymen, if they go on strike, they easily block the whole country.
Teachers go on strike because of a lack of financement and because classrooms get too many pupils.
(...) Education should always be a priority for a government.
People working for large companies (Air France, Whirlpool etc...) usually complain either for their wages or just... because the company is going to be relocated in third-world countries and they will soon lose their jobs.
But you know who never go on strike ? All the people working in medium-size (<50 employees) and small-size companies (<11 employees). They represent about 85% of the active population.
Still, despite strikes, numerous taxes, 5weeks of vacation and a 35hours workweek, France's got very productive workers. French people enjoy life more than most "workaholic countries" (Korea, US, Japan...) and are almost as productive.
I actually advise you to read the "4hours workweek " by Tim Ferriss. He gives an excellent explanation of your "working / money rate" vs "happiness rate". Someone that works 4hours a week and earns 1k USD a month is finally richer than someone working 50hours a week and earns 5k USD a month
Not mocking, (well the tank thing was a joke) just genuinely curious about the strikes that are always threatened or reported. I get most of my news from the BBC and they seem to report a lot of France Spain and Portugal strikes and protests.
Strike are a little bit exagerated IMO (plus, don't forget that you're not paid when you're on strike : people who do this usually have real needs or requests on stake). They mostly annoy people living in Paris or in other big cities. For the rest of the French people, it won't affect their lives. I live in country and I have never had to deal with any strike for the last decade.
Once I was travelling in Taiwan and met a guy who lived in France for 6 months. He was SO disappointed because he did not experience any of these famous strikes during his stay. xD
In Spain or Portugal, the situation is far worse (unemployment, homeless crisis especially in beautiful cities like Barcelona, low wages, etc.)
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Edited 6 years ago
deleted
· 6 years ago
Okay, what the fuck?
Twitter needs to reign in on this fucking speech control
Edit: read the tweet. This cunt deserves jail time.
Depends on what was said, if it was seemed a threat that could possibly be carried out then the police should get involved. Wasn’t it just a few weeks ago people were talking about how the latest US school shooter threatened to kill people or something online and everyone lost their shit asking why the police didn’t do anything?
There’s a difference between dissenting opinion (now labeled hate speech) and threats and you know it. Why are the “hate speech” fascists always trying to shut down Ben Shapiro? It is because he offers an opinion that doesn’t fit in their little bubble, he is a hate speech recipient and not a purveyor.
There is a difference, however a lot of people on the internet combine the two. All I’m saying is that we don’t know what this guy said and that his ‘opinion’ for all we know might have involved a threat for the police to actually see it and go ‘this is serious enough for a visit’.
Well, democracy was a great ride until it was democratically voted "Unfit for the New Age". Been glad knowing you all, I'll miss openly expressing harmless and harmful opinions online.
Y'all a bunch of babies!
1) You don't know what the original tweet was
2) This is not in the US, laws are different
3) Free Speech is inherently limited - it doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want. Do some actual research - read some case law!
4) @Pokethebear - you should be more worried about the current president who has actually attempted to disparage media vs "the left" who have been "begging" for this.
5)@serosenpai - nah they don't have to. They're a private company and therefore are not bound to 1st Amendment free speech clause - do some research, read some case law, be educated.
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· 6 years ago
Hmm? Who would've guessed they are a private company? I wonder? It's almost like I don't use Twitter for this very reason???
I acknowledged that this was not the US but lamented the fact that we are tumbling down that slippery slope. Look st the anti free speech movements on US college campuses. This is the left’s movement to silence all opposition. I can tell you that even the local media lies about what happens at my town board meetings, they all have an agenda.
The isn't any anti-free speech movement. Just anti-harassment.
I support your right to tell me that you hope I get killed and my dead body is used for some disgusting reason. But I deserve the right to do something to protect myself (and maybe others) in response to that.
So, let's clarify something. Freedom of Speech gives you the right to express your opinion without risk of censorship or reprisals. The operative word there is OPINION. It doesn't mean you can spout of threats without consequence. For example, if he said "I hate gay people." That is fine, assholish and bigoted maybe, but totally legal. Now, if he said "All gays should die" or "I want to kill every gay", then that is hate speech and uttering threats. That is not covered by freedom of speech.
I think that’s a gray area. Saying what you want and what you think should happen is still just making statements about your thoughts. “I am going to...” is how an actual threat starts.
After reading some of the inane comments here I weep for our future. And I await the inevitable visit from the snowflake police because I'm sure some of you are crying now.
Btw you better come heavy mother fuckers because I'm armed!
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· 6 years ago
They probably won't be able to find you since you didn't make an account.
What did she post? All it says is she criticized the walkout. Shouldn’t have a knife and weed though. The last sentence of that article, smh. They are constantly messing that up, it is “an historic” not “a historically” black church. I’m glad they use professional writers.
Of course, it should not be abusive, but IMO it is actually a good thing to remember people to think twice before getting mad on the Internet :)
@Pokethebear : Indeed, you're right. So let's use another example : If you stand at that same gay might club's entrance and yell homophobic stuff, people around will find you agressive and might call the police to make you stop.
There is a huge difference between "I want to express my opinion" and "I'm acting like an agressive moron", and justice is there to tell you the difference. Of course, what's complicated is the fact there is no absolute fair justice, for it always depends on subjective elements (people and society).
Stil, I'm really wondering what this dude posted first...
I suppose (maybe I'm wrong) you're from the US and I understand your vision of Freedom of Speech is different from mine (I'm French and most of the time we express our anger toward governement with strikes xD). There is no good or bad answer in the end. I still disagree with you, but it was interesting to see your point of view.
Sadly, I can't answer you for the tanks : the only one I can tell about is used for my fish.
Indeed, unemployment rate is around 10%.
Regarding strikes, only a few people actually goes on strike quite often : railwaymen, teachers, people working for large companies that makes huge profits. Railwaymen go on strike because they had good perks on their job, but since the work has become easier since XIXth century, government tends to delete these advantages. I don't blame them, if I were them, I wouldn't like to lose my rights either. The fact is, since they're railwaymen, if they go on strike, they easily block the whole country.
Teachers go on strike because of a lack of financement and because classrooms get too many pupils.
People working for large companies (Air France, Whirlpool etc...) usually complain either for their wages or just... because the company is going to be relocated in third-world countries and they will soon lose their jobs.
But you know who never go on strike ? All the people working in medium-size (<50 employees) and small-size companies (<11 employees). They represent about 85% of the active population.
Still, despite strikes, numerous taxes, 5weeks of vacation and a 35hours workweek, France's got very productive workers. French people enjoy life more than most "workaholic countries" (Korea, US, Japan...) and are almost as productive.
I actually advise you to read the "4hours workweek " by Tim Ferriss. He gives an excellent explanation of your "working / money rate" vs "happiness rate". Someone that works 4hours a week and earns 1k USD a month is finally richer than someone working 50hours a week and earns 5k USD a month
Once I was travelling in Taiwan and met a guy who lived in France for 6 months. He was SO disappointed because he did not experience any of these famous strikes during his stay. xD
In Spain or Portugal, the situation is far worse (unemployment, homeless crisis especially in beautiful cities like Barcelona, low wages, etc.)
Twitter needs to reign in on this fucking speech control
Edit: read the tweet. This cunt deserves jail time.
1) You don't know what the original tweet was
2) This is not in the US, laws are different
3) Free Speech is inherently limited - it doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want. Do some actual research - read some case law!
4) @Pokethebear - you should be more worried about the current president who has actually attempted to disparage media vs "the left" who have been "begging" for this.
5)@serosenpai - nah they don't have to. They're a private company and therefore are not bound to 1st Amendment free speech clause - do some research, read some case law, be educated.
I support your right to tell me that you hope I get killed and my dead body is used for some disgusting reason. But I deserve the right to do something to protect myself (and maybe others) in response to that.
Btw you better come heavy mother fuckers because I'm armed!
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/us/dylann-roof-sister-arrested/index.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dylann-roof-sister-arrested-charleston-church-shooter-drug-weapons-possession-charges-morgan-roof-a8257651.html