Haha you definitely should next year.
,
And for people who don't know, the line in question should be read as, "The neighbors might think, ... might say, 'what's in this drink?'" She's not accusing him of actually putting something in her drink.
I think a lot of stories and songs sound a lot worse with the perspective of years forward in history. Nearly every 90s sitcom is objectively offensive by today's standards. And I'm not saying this as a "we've become more politically correct/too sensive" I'm saying views change and the song was more appropriate in it's own time. But I don't think banning outdated media is the right way to handle it. Open discussion is important. Also, I don't think it's wrong to like a song even if you don't totally agree with the message.
Now, real talk out of the way, you guys have no idea how much this makes me want to do a #ExplainAFilmPlotBadly for "The Nativity Story". I'm worried it might be a little too offensive though. Thoughts?
Also, related to the post but not my previous comment. We need to start treating rape crime as a crime that isn't punished according to who has done the crime. This is true with all crime, I just think the guideless for punishment of rapist are way too board allowing judges to let of rich white men with a slap on the wrist (rich white women often not even that, perhaps ironically) but a poor black man can have his life utterly ruins by allegations that aren't even true. Now, obviously these are the extreme ends of the spectrum where there is a lot of middle, and I am aware that false accusations and correct ones happen to all races. What I am saying is, we need better guidelines. The punishment needs to be more clearly defined.
And I hate to be the one to defend rapists, but the burden of proof does actually rest with the prosecution.
I'm not saying don't report it if you don't have proof. The burden of proof rests with the prosecution, not nessicary the victim.
Yep, I can get behind what you're saying, if we could work out a way to implement it. I looked up this particular story and the prosecution themselves went on record saying they thought it was a completely fair outcome in this case. The judge wasn't involved except to say "okay" after the deal was signed. Terrible stuff like this just needs to be analyzed on a case by case basis, without the torches and pitchforks.
he lyrics are (W = part traditionally sang by a female, M = the parts sung by a male):
'
W: "I really can't stay"
M: (But, baby, it's cold outside)
W: "I've got to go away'
M: (But, baby, it's *cold* outside)
W: " This evening has been..."
M: (Been hoping that you'd drop in)
W: "... So very nice"
M: (I'll hold your hands - they're just like ice)
'
W: "My mother will start to worry"
M: (Beautiful, what's your hurry?)
W: "My father will be pacing the floor"
M: (Listen to the fireplace roar)
W: "So really, I'd better scurry..."
M: (Beautiful, please don't hurry)
W: "... But, maybe just a half a drink more..?"
M: (Put some records on while I pour)
W: "The neighbours might think..."
M: (But, baby, it's bad out there)
W: "Say.. What's in this drink?"
M: (No cabs to be had out there)
W: "I wish I knew how..."
M: (Your eyes are like starlight now)
W: "....to break this spell"
M: (I'll take your hat - your hair looks swell)
'
W: "I ought to say 'no, no, no, sir.'"
M: (Mind if I move in closer?)
W: "At least I'm gonna say that I tried"
M: (what's the sense in hurtin' my pride?)
W: "I really can't stay..."
M: (baby, don't hold out)
Both: "Oh, but baby, it's cold outside"
W: "I simply must go..."
M: (but baby, it's cold outside)
W: "The answer is no"
M: (but baby, it's cold outside)
W: "Your welcome has been..."
M: (how lucky that you dropped in)
W: "....So nice and warm"
M: (look out the window at this dawn)
'
W: "My sister will be suspicious"
M: (gosh your lips look delicious)
W: "My brother will be there at the door"
M: (waves upon the tropical shore)
W: "My maiden aunts mind is vicious"
M: (gosh your lips are delicious)
W: "But... maybe just a cigarette more...?"
M: (never such a blizzard before)
W: "I've gotta get home.."
M: (but baby, you'd freeze out there)
W: "Say... lend me a coat..?"
M: (it's up to your knees out there)
W: "You've really been grand
M: (i thrill when you touch my hand)
W: "But don't you see?"
M: (how can you do this thing to me?)
'
W: " There's bound to be talk tomorrow
M: (think of my lifelong sorrow)
W: "at least there will be plenty implied"
M: (if you got pnuemonia and died)
'
W: "I really can't stay..."
M: (get over that hold out)
Both: "oh, but it's cold outside"
Ok wow that is inappropriate. But yeah definitely not as fucked up as the rape case. The girl almost choked on her own vomit, she did everything right afterwards, went to the hospital for a rape examination where they determined she was indeed raped violently, and the guy still pretty much didn't get a punishment. I despise how the monsters with rich daddies get away with everything.
It's really not inappropriate, just misinterpreted. I am genuinely still not certain how it gets misunderstood so often. He didn't put anything in her drink-- it was (and still is) a common thing for people implying there is something in the air, in the water, in the food, in the drink as a way of explaining their own actions. She was fully coherent the entire rest of the song, and he literally asks her consent before moving toward her later on.
'
It's no more rape-y than the lines:
"There must be something in the water
And there must be something bout your daughter"
'
Additionally he's far from forcing her to stay. She has ample opportunity to leave, and is listing every reason why she SHOULD. But because she does not WANT to leave, she stays.
'
No different than:
"The weather outside is frightful
But the fire is so delightful
And since there's no place to go
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow."
If the hospital had determined something like that, you can rest assured the frat boy would be in prison for years. Every detail of this case was looked at from every angle by a body of professionals and this was the resolution deemed fair to all.
To be clear, also, him saying "get over that hold out" isn't referring to sex explicitly. He's asking her to stop making excuses and just admit she wants and will stay.
As for the rape case, I don't actually know enough about it to offer any real commentary on it currently but it sounds like yet another mess. Campus rape is so rarely dealt with in any substantial manner
@jasonmon The hospital has determined it. The problem was the law around it. Basically, the girl's lawyer was afraid she would lose the case and the rapist would get away with no punishment if she pushed for prison time (because the case was judged by a judge who is notorious for being lenient on rapists) so she accepted a less harsh punishment for him because chances were he would've got nothing at all.
As for the song @xvarnah, I'm a bit concerned about the line "what's in my drink", that just sounds rapey. Same with the lines where she's saying "I wanna leave" and he keeps dreaming about her "delicious" lips. I'd be creeped out if someone tried that to flirt with me. Plus the lines about how sad he'd be if she went and how could she do that to him are downright manipulative imho. But I'm starting to see your point about the girl's family's expectations. In any case, I wouldn't ban the song, that's just stupid. We can just acknowledge that is contains some weird lines and move on.
To the drink thing: I'm not a native English speaker so maybe the context is escaping me BUT to me personally it seems less of a "something in the air" thing and more of her wondering what kind of alcohol it is. Which, y'know, getting someone drunk to elicit consent more easily isn't unheard of.
Overall though I'm against banning anything. Do not ban history, learn from it.
A few things to keep in mind with the song:
'
-This isn't intended to be a random encounter in a bar with someone they just picked up. It's most likely a long standing relationship.
'
-She makes no actual attempt to leave. The closest she comes is asking if she can borrow his coat, which he doesn't deny her.
'
-She suggests they have more drinks. Not him. She also suggests they have another cigarette. This implies a couple things:
A) cigarettes take awhile to finish. So she's in no hurry to get away from him.
B) She's feeling well enough TO have a cigarette. At no point does she indicate she is under the influence of anything other than a glass or two of alcohol
C) They're smoking indoors. Which is only relevant because it helps keep in mind the era this was written in-- when smoking was common, and commonly done indoors.
And, additionally, in his defence he likely WOULD be concerned if she went out in the snow. He literally states there's a blizzard (likely a slight exaggeration), she doesn't have a proper coat from the sounds of it, she doesn't have a car, and her sole motivation for leaving-- as per her own words-- has nothing to do with wanting to get home. It is exclusively because OTHER people will notice she ISN'T home, and will spread rumours about what she's been doing. Which is a pretty poor reason to put yourself in a dangerous situation and make people worry about your safety.
'
So, he is perhaps being a bit manipulative, but arguably so is she by constantly saying she's going to leave but never following through and potentially making him worry in the first place.
And, perhaps, "what's in this drink" sounds more ominous than "what's in the air tonight," but, again, it's identical to "there must be something in the water." All expressions imply some other force is at work causing people to act in a way they wouldn't normally.
'
In a different context I could potentially see people mistaking it for rape, and perhaps, as you say, the language being different makes it sound more alarming a phrase to you, but it genuinely was never intended to imply anything even remotely close to rape
I just want to say that the song is actually over 70 years old. Carry on.
2Reply
deleted
· 6 years ago
Who banned that song?
Who told you that song was banned?
Nobody has banned that song.
There is literally no force on Earth keeping you from listening to that song.
If you don't believe me then just Google the damn thing, more than one cover will come up.
Pick one, enjoy. Also shut the fuck up and I hope you had a Merry Christmas.
( @jasonmon this is the part where my head explodes)
'
Have YOU even read the lyrics? The guy is not trying to rape her. She is literally finding any reason at all to stay with him. Her entire side of the conversation is her attempting to make excuses because SOCIETY can't handle the concept of a woman spending the night at a guy's house. She doesn't WANT to leave. She's just listing reasons why she's SUPPOSED to want to leave.
'
Good grief
,
And for people who don't know, the line in question should be read as, "The neighbors might think, ... might say, 'what's in this drink?'" She's not accusing him of actually putting something in her drink.
Now, real talk out of the way, you guys have no idea how much this makes me want to do a #ExplainAFilmPlotBadly for "The Nativity Story". I'm worried it might be a little too offensive though. Thoughts?
And I hate to be the one to defend rapists, but the burden of proof does actually rest with the prosecution.
I'm not saying don't report it if you don't have proof. The burden of proof rests with the prosecution, not nessicary the victim.
'
It's a duet sung (most often) by a man and a woman. Or I suppose two romantically involved partners.
'
W: "I really can't stay"
M: (But, baby, it's cold outside)
W: "I've got to go away'
M: (But, baby, it's *cold* outside)
W: " This evening has been..."
M: (Been hoping that you'd drop in)
W: "... So very nice"
M: (I'll hold your hands - they're just like ice)
'
W: "My mother will start to worry"
M: (Beautiful, what's your hurry?)
W: "My father will be pacing the floor"
M: (Listen to the fireplace roar)
W: "So really, I'd better scurry..."
M: (Beautiful, please don't hurry)
W: "... But, maybe just a half a drink more..?"
M: (Put some records on while I pour)
M: (But, baby, it's bad out there)
W: "Say.. What's in this drink?"
M: (No cabs to be had out there)
W: "I wish I knew how..."
M: (Your eyes are like starlight now)
W: "....to break this spell"
M: (I'll take your hat - your hair looks swell)
'
W: "I ought to say 'no, no, no, sir.'"
M: (Mind if I move in closer?)
W: "At least I'm gonna say that I tried"
M: (what's the sense in hurtin' my pride?)
W: "I really can't stay..."
M: (baby, don't hold out)
Both: "Oh, but baby, it's cold outside"
M: (but baby, it's cold outside)
W: "The answer is no"
M: (but baby, it's cold outside)
W: "Your welcome has been..."
M: (how lucky that you dropped in)
W: "....So nice and warm"
M: (look out the window at this dawn)
'
W: "My sister will be suspicious"
M: (gosh your lips look delicious)
W: "My brother will be there at the door"
M: (waves upon the tropical shore)
W: "My maiden aunts mind is vicious"
M: (gosh your lips are delicious)
W: "But... maybe just a cigarette more...?"
M: (never such a blizzard before)
M: (but baby, you'd freeze out there)
W: "Say... lend me a coat..?"
M: (it's up to your knees out there)
W: "You've really been grand
M: (i thrill when you touch my hand)
W: "But don't you see?"
M: (how can you do this thing to me?)
'
W: " There's bound to be talk tomorrow
M: (think of my lifelong sorrow)
W: "at least there will be plenty implied"
M: (if you got pnuemonia and died)
'
W: "I really can't stay..."
M: (get over that hold out)
Both: "oh, but it's cold outside"
'
It's no more rape-y than the lines:
"There must be something in the water
And there must be something bout your daughter"
'
Additionally he's far from forcing her to stay. She has ample opportunity to leave, and is listing every reason why she SHOULD. But because she does not WANT to leave, she stays.
'
No different than:
"The weather outside is frightful
But the fire is so delightful
And since there's no place to go
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow."
As for the song @xvarnah, I'm a bit concerned about the line "what's in my drink", that just sounds rapey. Same with the lines where she's saying "I wanna leave" and he keeps dreaming about her "delicious" lips. I'd be creeped out if someone tried that to flirt with me. Plus the lines about how sad he'd be if she went and how could she do that to him are downright manipulative imho. But I'm starting to see your point about the girl's family's expectations. In any case, I wouldn't ban the song, that's just stupid. We can just acknowledge that is contains some weird lines and move on.
Overall though I'm against banning anything. Do not ban history, learn from it.
'
-This isn't intended to be a random encounter in a bar with someone they just picked up. It's most likely a long standing relationship.
'
-She makes no actual attempt to leave. The closest she comes is asking if she can borrow his coat, which he doesn't deny her.
'
-She suggests they have more drinks. Not him. She also suggests they have another cigarette. This implies a couple things:
A) cigarettes take awhile to finish. So she's in no hurry to get away from him.
B) She's feeling well enough TO have a cigarette. At no point does she indicate she is under the influence of anything other than a glass or two of alcohol
C) They're smoking indoors. Which is only relevant because it helps keep in mind the era this was written in-- when smoking was common, and commonly done indoors.
'
So, he is perhaps being a bit manipulative, but arguably so is she by constantly saying she's going to leave but never following through and potentially making him worry in the first place.
'
In a different context I could potentially see people mistaking it for rape, and perhaps, as you say, the language being different makes it sound more alarming a phrase to you, but it genuinely was never intended to imply anything even remotely close to rape
Who told you that song was banned?
Nobody has banned that song.
There is literally no force on Earth keeping you from listening to that song.
If you don't believe me then just Google the damn thing, more than one cover will come up.
Pick one, enjoy. Also shut the fuck up and I hope you had a Merry Christmas.
this is the first thing liberals have been right about for years.
'
Have YOU even read the lyrics? The guy is not trying to rape her. She is literally finding any reason at all to stay with him. Her entire side of the conversation is her attempting to make excuses because SOCIETY can't handle the concept of a woman spending the night at a guy's house. She doesn't WANT to leave. She's just listing reasons why she's SUPPOSED to want to leave.
'
Good grief
my bad
it's still a pretty inappropriate song but your right.
they're just attacking the song for all the wrong reasons