Peter Pan was traditionally played by women- castrati did have a wider range than even adult females- but largely were necessitated in church choirs because at the time women were not aloud to vocalize in churches- so castrati filled the role of female singers. There are tons of historical examples where parts written for women or writers for Then were changed, where men or women would stand in roles who’s character had opposite genders, blah blah. People get their panties all twisted up over stupid stuff. Someday Johnny won’t want to be capn jack. They’ll need someone else or may do a total reboot. Whoever they get won’t be Johnny Depp, but as long as they are good let them get a 3 headed Vesuvian if we have made contact with aliens by then. People care so much about petty reasons and lose track of the point of a thing.
How to become a famous anti-SJW:
1) Make up something ridiculous. Bonus points if you manage to find one or two tweets by some randos from 2010 that are somewhat related to the topic.
2) Claim that "people" or "the SJWs" or simply "they" are saying it.
3) Wait for clicks and anti-SJW outrage.
Makes sense. While “Sparrow” is a last name and so is gender neutral, Jack is a man... oh wait. No. It’s gender neutral. Well, Pirates Must be men- oh wait. No. They can be women. Well, female pirates were uncommon, and POTC is a very period correct- oh wait. No. It’s not. Well anyway the REAL Jack sparrow was- oh wait. It’s a made up character. Well anyway you’re right. They’d never make wonder women a man so- oh wait. They did. He was called wonder man and led the amazons. Huh. Well... at least as far as I can tell you spelled everything correctly. Let’s see though... cutthroat island I know as a female led pirate movie... are there any others...? I know Wonder Woman was an A list female super hero film. Cat woman (if you count it..) how many other female led super hero movies have there been? Oh, how many male led movies have there been? Maybe- when things are caught up would be a good time to ask for a male lead in wonder woman? Give it 50-100 years or so and try again.
As far as I know the character of Jack Sparrow is *very vaguely* based on a male English pirate who served under the Ottoman Empire in his later years. However, the whole movie is about as historically accurate as a 14 year old's fanfic, so a change in the pirate's gender really shouldn't be a big deal at all.
And let's not pretend characters aren't changed all the time. Like, Santa whose inspiration (Saint Nicholas) was from a place that's now a part of Turkey, so he definitely didn't have blue eyes, white skin and didn't wear a red suit but most likely a robe. Or, for that matter, Jesus who was most likely a short, stout man with short black curly hair, a beard and brown skin. In other words, many of his conservative worshippers would hesitate to sit next to him on a plane.
This outrage over changing some movie characters just seems so miniscule when you look at how historical characters have been changed over time in different stories and cultures.
Thank you. Well said. In films past and present its very common for romans to be shown as speaking in pseudo British accents and looking very much as though they are all western Europeans. We get characters, cultures, so many things swapped out and mismatched even in “historical fiction” that it seems a bit daft to complain over something so slight. I would not necessarily be for making historical pieces where say- J Edgar Hoover was a woman (unless that was a plot or theme element,) but if you want to reboot the last star fighter and make Alex Rogan a young woman from the trailer park, or shoot Bullet 2019 or The great escape or what not and use a female lead- fine. Do a good story. Too many people are childish. They see women or traditional minority leads being cast and think “what about MY group?” They got a cookie, I want one too!” It doesn’t seem to matter to a child that they got 3 cookies already and the other kid didn’t. They may claim “history” or “tradition” but the...
.... history and traditions that are predominantly behind many of these characters being made a dominant race or gender in society is not a history to be proud of. That doesn’t mean that no one can be proud of ANYTHING or preserve any piece of history. It doesn’t degrade the accomplishments of the hard working men who did things in the past because women weren’t allowed- it degrades us if we continue to foster such a culture. A classic will always be a classic. Always belong to the time it was made, and be there for the future to enjoy. Making a new version doesn’t destroy the classic, it creates a version to reflect the time which it was made. You can still enjoy The original Nemoy/Shatner startrek just because there is a new version. Nemoy and Shatner were done making Star Trek films. When Depp is done, someone will replace him. There’s no reason it can’t be someone who isn’t like him. If they make a new joker- they can’t use Ledger, would you want them to try and use...
... a pale impersonator, or someone who brings something new to the role? My joker is Mark Hamill. For film, the image of the joker for me is Jack Nicholson. But I’ve seen those movies and shows. Ledger brought something new and I respect his performance and enjoyed seeing that take on Batman and the Joker. There are plenty of reboots I don’t like- but it isn’t because they cast the wrong gender or the wrong race or anything stupid like that. They changed something I felt was a fundamental aspect of why I enjoyed the original. If a persons fundamental enjoyment- the thing they value in a non pono film most is the genitals of the lead actor- they may want to readjust their priorities.
Why can’t we, instead of re-hashing films just with gender swapping, create some new ideas for female roles in films. I don’t want to see Ocean’s Eleven with women; I want to see a totally new action film with women. It just feels like a cheap cop out.
Pretty much. I'm not against doing a pirate movie with a female pirate lead. Idc if it's even a fairly similar style of movie. But I don't need a female jack sparrow. I didn't need a female oceans, ghost busters, Higgins, etc.
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On the flip side, since I don't have any interest in them, I don't watch them. So, so long as people don't attempt to use the poor ratings movies like that tend to get as evidence that movies with female leads don't do well, it doesn't really effect me.
It’s a good idea. In theory. If it was so simple and easy to create bankable and quality new stories though.... why would they bother rehashing and rebooting movies at all? Why would they make sequels for that matter of films that weren’t written as a specific multi film story? Sequels and reboots exist to make money, to capitalize on existing material. In some regard most stories are not so unique to begin, and many sequels or reboots start life as a completely non franchise script that gets a few plot changes and a known name slapped on. So I counter the question with: if they are going to Do sequels/reboots anyway, why not make some actual changes like telling the story from a different perspective and adding representation to under represented groups? If the original films are “dated” and anchored to the time they were made, and those times were largely male dominant, when you update a film why wouldn't you update the casting to represent the time we live in and it’s inclusiveness?
There's millions of books in the world that could be turned into movies or TV shows fairly easily. And plenty of them have authors that would be more than happy to have them translated for tv/movies And millions of screenwriters etc. I think Black Mirror is a good example of you don't need a hugely coherent string of plot points to make something extremely successful. Admittedly it's not a movie, but nevertheless. If they're GOING to remake movies with alt genders, then at least do it where it makes sense. PotC isn't dated, and to me Jack's character partly relies on him being male to work
1) Make up something ridiculous. Bonus points if you manage to find one or two tweets by some randos from 2010 that are somewhat related to the topic.
2) Claim that "people" or "the SJWs" or simply "they" are saying it.
3) Wait for clicks and anti-SJW outrage.
And let's not pretend characters aren't changed all the time. Like, Santa whose inspiration (Saint Nicholas) was from a place that's now a part of Turkey, so he definitely didn't have blue eyes, white skin and didn't wear a red suit but most likely a robe. Or, for that matter, Jesus who was most likely a short, stout man with short black curly hair, a beard and brown skin. In other words, many of his conservative worshippers would hesitate to sit next to him on a plane.
This outrage over changing some movie characters just seems so miniscule when you look at how historical characters have been changed over time in different stories and cultures.
'
On the flip side, since I don't have any interest in them, I don't watch them. So, so long as people don't attempt to use the poor ratings movies like that tend to get as evidence that movies with female leads don't do well, it doesn't really effect me.