I leaned over to my cousin during this death scene. We were both sobbing histerically. And I leaned over and whispered this to her, and we both started crying even more.
We brought tissues. I looked behind me and there was another group of girls crying as hard as we were. So I handed them some tissues too.
I figured there at least would have been some words but nope. Iron boi fisted himself too hard and couldn't even talk. Idk why that bothered me a little.
None of the deaths in the film resonated with me. Once they opened the whole time travel door- it all became whatever. They can now at will create as many alternate timelines as they like and grab people from whatever time- go back to right before Thanos dropped her and get Gamora- etc. go back right before Tony died and get him. They can get infinity stones from other worlds whenever they like and just put em back when through. Using the stones powers they can erase or reprogram memories or any number of things as they like. The storyline of the movie to me basically was: “nothing that happened or will happens matters in the MCU because we can “fix it” with another adventure.”
Some might say “they wouldn’t abuse the power...” but we’ve seen characters throughout the series so things that were morally questionable for greater or personal perceived benefit. We’ve seen that despite their arcs- many characters repeat these behaviors and only seem to learn until the next emotional break down. And even if “these” Avengers wouldn’t- if they discovered time travel someone else somewhere very well has too- including avengers in alternate timelines. So it’s all fan fiction now. Choose whatever ending you want for every character because they established that effectively anything is possible except to retrieve a soul stone sacrifice after the fact. But- we know they can get the from BEFORE the fact- so....
ugh. No. The stones are gone. None of that gimmick works anymore, and those alternate timelines? While necessary for the story were also erased. I figured YOU of everyone here, would pick up on that... given how fucking complicated it all is.
The entire point was that it was a single time travel shot and nothing prior could be undone, but the future could be... not fixed.. but not toats screwed.
The time machine was still functional at the end of the film. There is also no reason they ant build another- and the whole point of the machine was they didn’t need the stones to use it. What part of the film established that they cannot just go back to the past again and get them again? And the alternate time lines may or may not be gone. At the very least we have a time line where Loki escaped and created an alternate time line- not to mention any time lines diverging from various interaction with the past from talking to Tony’s father to Cap staying as a civilian for an entire life time.
He walked that one through to the end of the film. And unless he stopped the original theft of the infinity stones by defeating or convincing all the avengers... but that doesn’t work because we established what happens in the past of a timeline doesn’t effect the future of it as what happened isn’t undone- merely split. So the timeline cap is in in the end could also theoretically be a different time line than the one we were watching when he left- as the timeline when he left was one which he hadn’t lived a life with Peggy. We didn’t see him come through the machine- but he either did or he didn’t. It’s not Terribly important- since the rules they set and the precedent of those rules at work mean that effectively anything can happen.
An individual timeline might not be effected and in that way we can say in a given timeline that possibility or this one is precluded- but each trip creates a new future for the traveler in which no possibility is precluded in reference to the new timeline- they are only unable to change what has already occurred in their timeline- not change what has not occurred- or at least from their point of reference since in theory- we know that time exists simultaneously. They can go to a chosen point in a time line past, present. Or future so long as from their perspective that point is the future- the unknown. So they aren’t shifting time as much as their perception of time- the traveler continues moving “forward” from their point of reference- as witnessed by captain America aging.
Therefore any moment in any time line by their rules is simply a matter of perception in reference to the traveler and to those within the timeline. There were no restrictions set or observed save that what the travel has experienced as done cannot be undone within the timeline it occurred in. The fact they could get the stones back to the moment they were taken means that if the perception is they were not taken- the stones would effectively not be taken. Thusly it is all a matter of perception and perception is more fluid than that. But there is no instance I am aware of where they give reason or demonstrate why one can’t change timelines. Cap did it.
1) The Ancient One established that they can't go back and muck around....
2) This is fucking long, give me a second.
2a) Yeah, Loki is now in his own divergent timeline.
3) Those interactions are sentimental, but inconsequential.
4) Yeah, it could be a different timeline, but him showing up on the bench says otherwise. He 100% did not come back through the quantum portal. He knew when to show up and he did.
5) Yeah, that's the entire point. It's relativity. It's strange, but it makes perfect sense.
6) No... Cap didn't. He put the stones back and then he got his boner on.... and then when he knew they were going to be there he showed up. Technically there were two Caps in the main timeline the entire time.
@funkmasterrex-
1. Where/when/what? She said that removing the stones from their time lines would have dire consequences for those timelines if they weren’t returned. We are dealing with time travel and she didn’t set a limit- she seemed fine with the premise that whenever they were returned- as long as they were returned to the moment they were taken- no harm done. Which- as a side note implies that either the stated understanding in movie of timelines is debunked, or an alternate horror time line is created the moment the stones are taken but that it is only experienced by those in that time line once they are returned and the “prime” timeline of those divergences is placed back on track.
3. Who is to say? They are divergent from the events that would have taken place originally. Therefore thy never happened in the past- they occurred in the future. A new future which was created when the timelines diverged. Any event which hasn’t previously occurred for the out of time observer is their future. No longer the past. S different moment in time. For the “in time” person whom the events differ from what was experienced the time line is a new o e separate from the original. Otherwise the whole “what happens in the past doesn’t effect your future because the past is your future” doesn’t work.
4/6- exactly. He never came back through the portal. You leave through the portal- you go to an alternate timeline. You come back through the portal- you return to your timeline. The device tony built is a “quantum gps.” It locates you in time as well as your origin point so you can return to it. Nothing you do in the “past” effects the future because the “past” isn’t the “past” of your native timeline. Your “past” already happened. It cannot be changed by these rules. You are changing events in another timeline. Cap didn’t return. So he did not return to the exact point he left and could not because without the GPS he exists in an alternate but nearly identical timeline.
At the end of the film- the future we are seeing isn’t the future of the timeline from the other MCU movies. In that future Peggy never married Cap- or hadn’t as of the time he looked her up. Therefore cap must have not interacted with any other events and done nothing that would seriously alter the flow of the timeline as HE KNEW IT- hence he knew where to be and when, but the fact that events unfolded the way he remembered other than what he changed isn’t an argument it’s the same timeline- it’s proof it is not.
The same way that all events other than what were changed in the respective alternate timelines created by the initial “time Heist” were not the “prime” timeline even though they otherwise followed the events of the films as we, the avengers, and the established continuity knew them to occur. When one uses the “time machine” one is by default going into an “alternate timeline” and the “quantum GPS” is the method by which one returns to their own timeline- otherwise they would continue to flow forward in the alternate continuity as Cap did when he didn’t come back through.
My best guess would be that you don’t want to get out in the weeds discussing hypotheticals of imaginary technology that we lack both the information to completely understand and the ability to test and validate various hypotheses. So there would be no prejudice there. Beyond that I do not know.
We brought tissues. I looked behind me and there was another group of girls crying as hard as we were. So I handed them some tissues too.
The entire point was that it was a single time travel shot and nothing prior could be undone, but the future could be... not fixed.. but not toats screwed.
2) This is fucking long, give me a second.
2a) Yeah, Loki is now in his own divergent timeline.
3) Those interactions are sentimental, but inconsequential.
4) Yeah, it could be a different timeline, but him showing up on the bench says otherwise. He 100% did not come back through the quantum portal. He knew when to show up and he did.
5) Yeah, that's the entire point. It's relativity. It's strange, but it makes perfect sense.
6) No... Cap didn't. He put the stones back and then he got his boner on.... and then when he knew they were going to be there he showed up. Technically there were two Caps in the main timeline the entire time.
1. Where/when/what? She said that removing the stones from their time lines would have dire consequences for those timelines if they weren’t returned. We are dealing with time travel and she didn’t set a limit- she seemed fine with the premise that whenever they were returned- as long as they were returned to the moment they were taken- no harm done. Which- as a side note implies that either the stated understanding in movie of timelines is debunked, or an alternate horror time line is created the moment the stones are taken but that it is only experienced by those in that time line once they are returned and the “prime” timeline of those divergences is placed back on track.