If the child presents a significant risk to the mother (at least more than child bearing and birth normally pose, obviously) I have no problem with the child being aborted.
That would be the one time that I would not object to an abortion.
However, unless that is the case, I am opposed to it. The age of the mother and the circumstances of the conception do not make the unborn child any less human or any less valuable.
So you're saying that an 11 year old rape victim should have their baby? Meaning an 11 year old CHILD (or 12 year old child depending upon their birthday and when their baby is due) should suffer through the extreme pain of childbirth against their will because some man decided to rape her? I'm just curious. (And I hope that doesn't come across as condescending or rude, etc. It's not my intention.)
I reallly didn’t wanna post here but I’m in absolute shock that you think the value of an unborn fetus that has no “memories, life, perception of pain(till a certain point)” etc is higher than an 11 year old CHILD who now on top of going through the trauma of rape needs to birth the child of the rapist. And grown ass women are never the same after giving birth and you think this child will be okay? Can you imagine the physical scars on her small and frail body? She would already be mentally traumatized and we should have her go through the agony of 9 months of being sick and feeling terrible so that she can take on the additional mental trauma of birth? Even happy healthy women that want babies still go through postpartum depression, can you imagine life for this poor little girl? How dare you think that ALL that suffering inflicted on one child is worth it when the other fetus could be aborted at a point where it’s safe. And then if the fetus was in fact birthed what kind of..
Horrible life are you condemning that poor child to. Humans are strong but how much love could you REALLY provide a child that you know was a product of so much pain and suffering on you. So now the baby has to be adopted out and if that was a perfect system we wouldn’t have all these horror stories by adopted kids and foster situations. God forbid if the child gets depressed about not having a family and tries to find out where she came from and actually learnt why she’s alive. Even if she doesn’t imagine the mental health issues of feeling abandoned by ones parents. So nice now you have a fucked up 11 year old and a fucked up child of that 11 year old. Congratulations you’ve made the world better by forcing YOUR PERSONAL views on someone else’s life.
Is it equally valuable when you are ruining the lives of two children as opposed to trying to fix the life of one child who has now been through unimaginable trauma and prevent even more harm from coming to her? I don’t even know what value means to you anymore or what arguments you have for anything that I have said so right now this is as bad as me saying here is scientific and social reasons as to why that poor girl should be able to have an abortion and you’re just going “no, because I said so”
That’s just it though, at a certain point that fetus isn’t someone at all without the organs, the brain the capacity to feel or think or any of it and you fail to see that. Yes it has the potential to be life if carried to term with that being said so does every sperm or egg in a human being and I highly doubt you cry over every wank/period depending on what you have. And what I’m saying again is that I am giving you medical and social cons to the child carrying a baby and all you are saying is one life is as valuable as the other. Which is basically saying because I say so. You know why? Value is something entirely personal. Something I value won’t be the same as something you value because we don’t have the same values. While it’s not the fault of the baby, the logical thing to prevent more harm from coming to the child carrying the baby and the potential future of that baby who almost certainly won’t have a good life would be to prevent the baby from being carried
People being equally valuable is a basic tenet of a free and fair society, its not just my personal opinion any more than your opinion on this is just your opinion. Your basically saying that if someone is below a certain threshold of prospects for their future its more okay to kill them. I don't agree with that. The baby deserves to live because its a person with as equal a right to life as anyone else and its not worth violating that right to save another person from the rigors of carrying and birthing a child. (Assuming that process doesn't pose a significantly higher risk than a normal pregnancy.)
Yes while I agree babies deserve to live all I’m saying is these things need to be reviewed on a case by case basis. I get why people are pro life, if you read a comment below you’ll see that I’m against abortion FOR MYSELF being a keyword here. But the process DOES pose a significant risk. Even for grown adults birthing has left my friends and family with permanent mental and physical health conditions and these are babies they wanted. If you just look only at the physical strain that a child has to go through for 9 months itself without being able to live her life normally that itself is pain enough. Let’s not even talk about how her reproductive organs have barely just started functioning, how a baby exiting her especially if they had to perform a cesarean would leave her with with all sorts of complications on top of the mental pain. The question is why do you think that a ball of cells that could POTENTIALLY be a human is of the same value as a child that’s alive? Why do you..
Also not address the issue that if the lives of these kids are so worth it, why do you not care that their lives are badly ruined when people decide that she shouldn’t be allowed to abort? Is the baby being alive more important than the baby being born into a terrible life? With that logic because a life has value should we not put down a pet that is suffering endlessly? Would you rather let people suffer if it meant that they both live? If a boy gets raped and the woman that raped him gets pregnant is he now gonna be forced to pay child support? You can be pro life and not pro forcing a rape victim child to ruin her life and bring a child into an inevitably horrid life. Life isn’t black and white or else we wouldn’t even need courts would we, ah what a shit world we live in
"The question is why do you think that a ball of cells that could POTENTIALLY be a human is of the same value as a child that’s alive?"
The ball of cells *is* a human, so it has the same right to life as the child.
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"why do you not care that their lives are badly ruined when people decide that she shouldn’t be allowed to abort?"
I do care, but it's not worth killing someone to avoid that.
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"Is the baby being alive more important than the baby being born into a terrible life?"
Yes.
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"With that logic because a life has value should we not put down a pet that is suffering endlessly?"
You could make that argument, but I eat animals, so it would be silly for me to argue against them being killed.
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"Would you rather let people suffer if it meant that they both live?"
Definitely yes.
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"If a boy gets raped and the woman that raped him gets pregnant is he now gonna be forced to pay child support?"
Preferably not, obviously.
"Life isn’t black and white"
In general it isn't, but I think the right to life is fairly black and white, and I don't think this is a scenario where it needs to be, because I don't think the suffering you've outlined is worth killing someone to avoid. I think that's fairly easy to understand, whether you agree with it or not.
Even this I can agree with, I personally wouldn’t think it’s morally right for MYSELF to be aborting a baby after carrying it to term. I would’ve in that situation gotten pregnant cause I had sex and I would’ve had all the opportunities to have prevented the birth during and right after having sex but if I still carried the baby for another 6 months or something and got buyers remorse, for me, I just wouldn’t be able to abort a baby at that stage and think that it was right. But this is not that situation. You CAN be pro-life and not pro this
However, unless that is the case, I am opposed to it. The age of the mother and the circumstances of the conception do not make the unborn child any less human or any less valuable.
The ball of cells *is* a human, so it has the same right to life as the child.
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"why do you not care that their lives are badly ruined when people decide that she shouldn’t be allowed to abort?"
I do care, but it's not worth killing someone to avoid that.
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"Is the baby being alive more important than the baby being born into a terrible life?"
Yes.
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"With that logic because a life has value should we not put down a pet that is suffering endlessly?"
You could make that argument, but I eat animals, so it would be silly for me to argue against them being killed.
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"Would you rather let people suffer if it meant that they both live?"
Definitely yes.
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"If a boy gets raped and the woman that raped him gets pregnant is he now gonna be forced to pay child support?"
Preferably not, obviously.
In general it isn't, but I think the right to life is fairly black and white, and I don't think this is a scenario where it needs to be, because I don't think the suffering you've outlined is worth killing someone to avoid. I think that's fairly easy to understand, whether you agree with it or not.