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jscott18
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
They won't criticize China because it would reduce their paydays.
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karlboll
· 4 years ago
And because a lot of China's pollution is from production for the west.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
There is truth to that- but it isn’t THE truth. Let’s dig deeper shall we?
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The United States is either slightly larger or slightly smaller than China in total area depending on who’s data you want to use, which territorial claims you want to say are “part of” that nation- and wether or not we include things like bodies of water when calculating size.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The United States has about the quarter of the population of China- but the ISA produces a little more than half of China’s emissions. That is to say- if we kept the average emissions divided by person the same and scaled up the US population to match China- without any other changes- the US would produce more than 2x the emissions of China.
guest_
· 4 years ago
The EU is slightly better at emissions- they produce about one third the total emissions of China, and also have a total population that is closer to 1/3 of China by about 100 million and change over the USA. So if we scaled up the EU similarly- they would be pretty close plus or minus a bit of what China puts out in total green house emissions.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
In other words- China isn’t actually doing so badly on a per capita basis managing its emissions compared to other major developed world nations. They are much more populated yes- which increases the scale- but this shows you it isn’t just about “pay days” or sucking up to China.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
If we start shining a light on China and demanding they curb their global emissions- well- it’s very likely China might bring up OUR global emissions. Then we’d have to look at our own houses and clean them up wouldn’t we? That means no more 3 cars per family, no more wood burning stoves and furnaces for “tradition,” cost, because of the aesthetic and so on. That means no more galavanting about the globe for no good reason other than a “love of travel” and no more having produce trekked in from all corners simply because we enjoy “exotic tastes” or want to eat our favorite foods out of season. It means higher prices on everyday things as we demand transportation and manufacturing companies keep and maintain expensive and complex pollution reduction measures.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Because China pollutes so much because they have a HUGE population- but much of their population has MUCH less than the “middle class” standard of the developed world. We pollute close to as much per person because we have WAY less people- but we each use much more than the average Chinese person. Which means that to tackle our own pollution problem requires a technological leap beyond any seen, or simply each of us giving up a lot of the “little” comforts we enjoy and take for granted.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
When you start talking about hundreds of billions of people- if each INDIVIDUAL doesn’t keep their tires inflated, decides to drive 5 Miles a day with only them in a car or SUV, has to have one party a year with disposable decorations and utensils and blah blah.... all those “little things” done by all of us- equal a BIG amount of pollution.
guest_
· 4 years ago
And that’s JUST greenhouse emissions. The US is again- not close to being the largest population in the world- but depending on who’s lost you use- the USA is in the top 5 waste producing nations. Surprisingly- the often “green” perceived Canada produces far more waste PER PERSON than the USA- but the USA produces a staggering 8,425,840,000 metric tons compared to Canada at 1,325,480,289 metric tons. China doesn’t quite reach these levels (yet- but t has been rising aggressively in the past decade.) Luxembourg and Sweden also rank high on the global trash production- the UK and Germany by comparison make about 1/3 the trash per person as the USA.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
When we start to examine these things we can see some unhappy pictures. We could say the USA is one of the world leaders in recycling. Canada recycles avocet 20% of waste where the US recycles over 30%- and by total volume the USA is a giant of recycling- but duh. 30% of a huge number is a huge number- but 70% is essentially trash- and 70% of a huge number is also a huge number.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So as the old saying goes “people in glass houses...” Our politicians our reluctant to tackle issues like this- but it isn’t entirely self motivated. WE are a major part of the problem. The old cliche is “vote with your wallet.” It’s not so different than things like taxes- we yell at our leader to fix roads and schools and such, they tell us that will cost money, cause us some discomfort while they build these things. We scream and holler about the money and discomfort- then we choose leaders not by who is going to do what we want- but by who makes logically incompatible promises that they’ll spin straw into gold and fix everything without us feeling the slightest pinch.
guest_
· 4 years ago
We as individuals continue to be wasteful and selfish- we create and exacerbate the issues, fight against ways to fix them. Things that will cost us money, take convenience from our lives. If the government tried to pass laws saying you couldn’t own a vehicle that was too big or fast or otherwise was “more” than was essential for your needs- or that you couldn’t drive at all based on your needs- if they past legislation that you couldn’t buy greeting cards for every occasion or new Halloween costumes each year or had to care and keep the same shoes and clothes for decades- you couldn’t have more than one TV per 5 people or have 4 iPads or so on and on- we’d revolt. We won’t make the right choices ourselves and we won’t let other force us to.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But most of us shout about the problems and wanting them fixed- but we also don’t want to pay the price to fix them. Not ourselves anyway. We are fine if other people pay, but if it costs us even minor inconvenience- look at reactions and attitudes about “bag bans” and “straw bans” and other things- we do not want to have to change at all- we just want the problems our behaviors cause to vanish without us changing those behaviors. How does that work? We look to science for a “miracle” “all the flavor none of the fat.” Something that will use technology so we can do as we are right now- but without the problems.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
We look to politicians to solve the problems using “business magic” without asking anything from us. We look to businesses to solve it for us. “Make things we have now as good and as cheap but with less pollution!” We look at China or wherever else so we can say “if you get your act together things will be better (and I won’t have to change...)” and we blame these people for the problems.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But we forget- we elect the politicians. We vote the laws. We give money to businesses and buy their products and we guide the market and business simply adapts to serve the priorities and desires we tell them we will pay for. And other countries are just people like us. Trying to live their lives. And when we have so much- many of us have more than the global average by far- and we want people with much less to give up some of what they have so that we can “save the planet” all from the comfort of our relatively lavish and wasteful lifestyles without changing our own behaviors.
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deleted
· 4 years ago
Damn Trudeau
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dcottingham
· 4 years ago
The crux of this BS is the insinuation that China is being somehow exempted from calls to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Which has no basis in reality.
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drumguy
· 4 years ago
This is a common Republican viewpoint. "Other people are doing bad things, even worse things. So you can't tell me not to do bad things."
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famousone
· 4 years ago
No.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
It isn’t so much that other people doing bad things isn’t bad- or that other people doing worse things makes yours ok. It is more so about hypocrisy. Say you share a car with a family member and you’re upset they keep leaving dents on the car- if they turn around and say “well you always leave stains on the seats!” That’s “whataboutism” - 2 wrongs don’t make either right. But- if you’re upset with them for never putting fuel in the car when they drive it- but YOU never put fuel in the car when you drive it- well... you can’t ask them to start doing it unless YOU start doing it.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
It’s a mutual problem you both created. You either live like that and leave the problem unsolved because you don’t want to start doing what you are supposed to do- or you be the change you want to see in the world. You change, you start filling up the fuel you use each time, and then if they don’t- you’re in a position to demand that they do.
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