I'm not a socialist but ..

The last statement is arguable. Average individual health care insurance is $440 individual and about $1100 for “family” per month. The maximum cap for house holds to get government assistance in health care is $85,300. The US “average” household makes about $62k- but it varies widely as where I live- “middle class” is over $80k for a single person, and lots of people only make minimum wage in the US- so... let’s say if you make $45k and your spouse makes $42k- you are paying about 15% of your household income JUST for healthcare premiums (not counting co pays, deductibles, etc.) in that income range you are already likely taxed at about 24%. An extra 15% would be 39%.

As long as the tax hike is less than 16%- you are doing at word even and likely better in cost- so we can’t say that a person can’t afford it because it’s very possible that for many people we would be saving money. That’s without factoring in that if we transitioned from private to government medical systems there are theoretically*(more on that later) huge ways to decrease costs without decreasing wages to industry workers as the processes could be streamlined and efficiencies improved in supply chain etc.

Many socialist countries have taxes around 40-50% of income- but most Americans already are in 20% tax bracket or higher and pay 10-15% or more in medical- so with another 10-20% or so- we are in the tax range that food, shelter, medicine, and higher education can all be provided for free. When we remove the expenses for many of these things- or if we determine different formulas (30% is the recommended max housing budget- many Americans pay more than 30% on housing. Regulation or socialized market controls or government housing developments could save Americans huge amounts for example) we could actually very easily make the case that by the numbers- most people would save.

But remember I said “theoretically” and we’d talk about that later? It’s later. Don’t buy in to the like that they’ll take your money. That’s a con. The biggest problem I see with government health care is the same problems we already have. Key public works and social welfare programs are under supported, underfunded, and Mismanaged. Funds are legally but by common morals re directed and let projects and nepotism and all manner of graft and games go on.

Making a few industries public doesn’t get rid of private business or wealth. Did the USSR have corruption? Does China? Hell yeah. Politicians still work for the rich. You may be making sure the guys running Anthem can’t get fat off your dollar- but how’s that stop politicians from making back room deals and favoring people who are pals or butter their bread? In many ways with our current system- it makes it easier. And guess what? Our politicians sit on boards of private companies that.. shock- often get government contracts. Huh. How could eliminating all competition possibly be abused by a law maker who also has financial stake in a certain company...?

But look at schools. We want to government to take over college? Ok. Well- everyone agrees they are doing great with primary school yeah? Classes are well supplied and have good tools? Kids get lots of individual attention and the highest quality education? Kids in school and recently graduated feel the school did well in preparing them for life? Been to a state college in the last few decades? Some great schools. Some people love them so much they stay for an extra semester or a few... to get all the classes they need since they couldn’t get in since they were packed.

So those are all very big and very real reasons to be skeptical and demand concrete and comprehensive plans on HOW they would intend to do such a thing well. But the other problem- it isn’t the fear many have that working Joe and Jane would end up giving away half their money to “welfare queens” and educating other people’s kids because they’re too “poor or irresponsible” or whatever. You’re going to pay for rich people.

What? Yes. You see- you can take a dollar from 300 million Americans or take 300 million dollars from one rich American- and the first one is actually much easier in general. Money funnels up. It’s a pyramid- the basic structure of human organization for most of organized government. Lots of people on the “base” producing the things that the people “higher up” get more of than the people that do the work. That’s how privilege work. Wether it’s a king or a ceo.

So speaking of Americans a touch above middle class but not quite “rich,” these people tend to be savvy and good with money. They make enough and usually are financially literate enough to use tax shelters and various other things to grow and maintain their wealth, and a big secret of wealth is that not spending money is better than making the same amount of money (generally.)

So our folks making the 80 odd k? Their medical bills are being payed by a bunch of guys making $40,60 whatever. And as we covered- if the tax is just a rate hike and less than 16%, they are likely now saving money. So while it likely wouldn’t hurt people who make less- it would very likely have the effect of of funneling money upwards.

There are things like FSA accounts and things you can do when you itemize taxes- depending on how things were done and what happened to them- people in that or higher brackets may we’ll be able to take advantage of them still. So if you’re making $87k and you are above the cut off for “free” healthcare- sink the extra ore tax into an FSA, get the free healthcare, use the money in the FSA to buy private label medicines, get Lasic, get veneers or dental implants, buy designer glasses. You now have free health care that is already putting a few percent back in your pocket over private pay with the tax burden- but you’re paying less on your taxes since you shielded your income- AND you get “free” “essential but not really essential but allowed by law” medical swag.

Oh- and don’t forget- what about FSA and HSA? How do we handle that? What about the tax code for itemized medical expenses? It’s gonna be hard to reach the income threshold for write offs in a socialized healthcare system. What do we do there? All these little things, tax laws and privacy laws and transparency laws and blah blah- we’d need to reconcile them to the new order.

So it isn’t JUST flipping a switch and changing more taxes. There are tons of legal and administrative issues that come up and need to be thought about ahead of time. And things will be missed. People will fall through the cracks and opportunists will scour laws and tax codes and such to find ways to game the new system- and if it isn’t well made- that could be VERY bad.

There are TONS of potential issues and concerns with government healthcare brought to you by the US government and their spotless track record of things like: handling the health and other crises after Hurricane Katrina. How they’ve dealt with Covid. The education system. Mental health services in the US. I could go on and on.

But- side note. The next time some one from another country starts in on “952 civilized nations have social healthcare and it works for us. It can work there too...” really? UK, Australia, Canada, Western Europe etc- how do you and 952 other countries feel about how awesome we’ve done controlling Covid? Think the US is doing great at it? But... you guys are all doing pretty well last I checked. Yeah. The same fuxking guys who can’t get Covid tests and are arguing wether Saw Palmetto or essential oils or chicken feet cure Covid- THATS who’s be running our government healthcare system.

Still think because you did it we can do it too? When out government can’t get tests to tell people if they’re even infected? When the CDC- who’s MAIN PURPOSE- center of disease control- they track and control diseases- they LOST OVER 1,000 PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN MARKED FOR MONITORING AND QUARANTINE AFTER RETURNING FROM HIGH RISK COUNTRIES. Let it sink in, that they were going to contact and trace thousands more who supposedly returned from China- and their strategy there was... call people, ask if they’d been to China, and if they said no- take it on trust they hadn’t. That isn’t a joke. The government agency tasked with controlling diseases did those things.

I read your first response and nothing else because honestly you went on a very long rant and I'm 11 hours into a 12 hour night shift. My only response and take of it what you will. I work with a Journeyman Welder. He is paid roughly $40 an hour. He grosses roughly $6,422.40 a month. He nets $4,000 almost exactly. Yearly this works out to an almost $30,000 tax bill in Income Tax. After that when he does his taxes he pays more in taxes. Just because we do it and survive does not mean we can afford it. That just means we are forced too.