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purplepumpkin
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
"Some of you are going to die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
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dr_richard_ew
· 4 years ago
I must be tired this morning bc I dont understand what this is saying
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bethorien
· 4 years ago
i believe its saying that we could have colonized space by now if we hadnt spent 5 trillon dollars on aid to Africa
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dr_richard_ew
· 4 years ago
Ah ok
guest_
· 4 years ago
Short version- that seems to be the case. The Martial Plan was the reconstruction of Europe after WW2. So I believed the point is that 1. As Bethorien says- we could have invested that in space exploration and 2. We spent significantly less on rebuilding a decimated Europe that is now one of the worlds leaders in economy, technology, and standard of living- but this person is seemingly saying that the money has been “wasted” on Africa because despite the higher investment- the results haven’t been as significant as with Europe. (I believe this to be faulty logic and will post that reply sad it’s own post.)
guest_
· 4 years ago
Faulty logic. The first fault is the assumption that foreign aid money would go to space exploration instead of another budget. Even if it wasn’t absorbed into military funding or internal security, there are hosts of backlogged infrastructure projects as well as a several decades long call for increased funding of schools, and money that went to foreign aid, if not used for foreign aid could also find itself used for domestic social welfare programs such as housing assistance, work programs, retirement care... and that’s leaving out lots of specifics like the prison system that gobble up funds.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
It also ignores this money was spent over more than half a century- with plenty of presidents and political lobby’s having their own (often hair brained) pet projects which sometimes get funded at the expense of taking from other budgets and cutting services, or don’t get funded due to lack of funds. That money, if “free” in the budget- would be more likely to go to “special projects” perhaps “Star Wars” or similar expensive and largely questionable uses of spending in the Reagan years to fight communism by throwing money into the massive money Pitts of the day. Hell- they could have bought and flown more black bird missions and evaporated that cash in the stratosphere taking pictures of the Kremlins Halloween decorations.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The 90’s saw Dessert Storm- and I’m sure they could have come up with quite the wishlist with the extra money floating around the budget for that one. The “war on drugs” was a largely pointless and poorly managed campaign to see how much money could be spent not fixing a problem- and by many accounts making it worse. We could have bought alt more posters, celebrity anti drug commercials, and giant mascot suits for school visits telling kids that cool people use drugs so they shouldn’t be cool.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The “9/11” and post 9/11 era... oh yeah. I’m sure at the time we were commissioning massive redundant, bloated, and ineffectual new intelligence and security agencies; buying any and every cool toy that anyone thought MIGHT help fight terrorists, and using federal funds to give armored vehicles and complete nuclear chemical biological hazmats gear and training to the local PD in the middle of nowhere population 1300- that our big priority for that money would be space and not the gold rush of politicians and organizations capitalizing on panic and fear to hire new staff and buy gadgets or pass their own long held wish lists thinly veiled as “anti terror.”
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Obama coulda had a lot more drones- and perhaps we could have up armored out troops overseas among other things- and of course, our current president would be more than happy to take his chunk of that cash and use it to build his wall- a projected $23 billion dollar construction project that would require billions more in upkeep, electronics, and personnel over the next... forever. That’s IF we pretend the budget wouldn’t balloon by billions before it was done since they keep choosing contractors who outright steal the money or build wall that falls apart after a few years and would need built again- at greater cost to do it right.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
And that’s also ignoring the formation of the “space force” and how if we had any money- they might get a pretty big chunk as currently they don’t even have their own uniforms and borrow them from other branches.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So the funding would have most likely been soaked up by other things that most people and politicians care about more. Space has had its minor booms but any serious push at space since the moon landings. It doesn’t generally make us money to go to space. When you spend $450 million on a single launch you always get people bit$hing about what that money could have done on earth. Politicians aren’t in the game of doing what’s smart for humanity centuries from now- they are in the business of keeping their jobs by making people happy.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Beyond that though- we have to acknowledge the differences of post war Europe and of Africa. Europe was decimated, but HAD been booming. Remnants of infrastructure and factories and such remained, and more importantly- having just been at a state of total war and mass production- there wasn’t exactly a shortage of skilled professionals and factory workers and people with technical knowledge and experience.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
The post war world was in full consumer mode- We couldn’t produce fast enough to keep with demand. By a few decades later- production of most goods had exceeded demand- into the present day we produce far more consumer goods and necessities than are used. A great deal ends up as waste. That hurts efforts to stimulate any sort of economic growth.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
And that’s an important segue. Most efforts in Africa have centered around basic infrastructure such as creating clean water, fighting disease, feeding people etc. but a good deal of this money has been spent in ways other than “reconstruction.” In Europe- we spent money to establish factories, provide equipment, train personnel and invest in business. We sent troops to ensure security and stability until such a time that the local governments could maintain internal security and external security in their own. We sat down with leaders and forged diplomatic ties to increase and keep this stability.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Tl:dr- Africa is not post war Europe. Aid rendered to Africa has not largely been like that given to post war Europe- and perhaps it would be more effective to do so, or perhaps it would ultimately hurt our own interests to. But even if we weren’t spending on foreign aid it’s daft to think of all the uses the government and politicians could find for that money- they’d choose to use it on space exploration. That’s without addressing philosophical and humanitarian concerns- humans have expanded across the globe through history looking for solutions to problems like over population and conflict- and instead of finding answers we have just brought our problems with us and increased their scale while adding new ones. So I believe space is important to our future- but I also believe that if we can’t take care of things on our planet and each other- what can we do in space besides spread our sickness?
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